http://marspedia.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Miros1&feedformat=atomMarspedia - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T10:08:25ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.34.2http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User:Miros1&diff=73062User:Miros12016-04-06T21:04:45Z<p>Miros1: </p>
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<div>I help block the spammers and delete their nasty footprints. I also fix typos, spellcheckeritis, and grammar errors when I see them.<br />
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{{Go to lunarpedia user}}<br />
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{| style="align: right; float: right; border: 0px" cellspacing = 0<br />
|{{User Sysop}}<br />
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[[Category:User Pages]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Old_Home&diff=7489Talk:Old Home2012-09-30T20:25:36Z<p>Miros1: /* Wikipedia based articles */</p>
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<div>This page has been protected to avoid anonymous attacks. <br />
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=Main Page development=<br />
I have made an attempt to upgrade the front page to improve design, ease of use and accessability to the wiki. I have tried to focus on accessibility for new users as we need to increase online interest in our efforts.<br />
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Some recent updates:<br />
*Inclusion of a "[[Featured articles]]" on the front page (see [[user:Ioneill]] for development details).<br />
*Creating [[Marspedia:About]] page to move bulk text from main page.<br />
*Creating "Marspedia News" section on front page - for development purposes (i.e. new site developments/announcements), '''not''' to advertise new content.<br />
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Unresolved areas:<br />
*Copyright notice, should it be moved to a less-prominent position?<br />
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For now, over to you! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 04:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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:I like the new appearance. It is better than ever! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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::It looks wonderful; I can't wait to steal it for Lunarpedia. 8) The copyright rules notice is too large and unwieldy, and as you may have noticed, in over a year I've not figured out a more compact solution that imparts the required information. Maybe a terse summary with a link to a more detailed version? How much can we pare down the summary if so? --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 08:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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:::Hi James, I have seen several occurrences of "8)" in your talk. What does it mean? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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::::It's an emoticon, akin to ''':-)'''. I wear glasses, thus the eight instead of the colon... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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:Cool, glad to get people's opinion on it. Kinda melded the Wikipedia format with our own - hopefully we'll be a unique set of wikis in time. I've been looking at the copyright notice, and I think we can work with what we have for now. We must keep in mind, we are in the development phase of this project, so there are going to be a lot of rough edges. As we will (hopefully) have a continuous, and increasing influx of articles, newcomers will need to read the GFDL terms and conditions first. Also, having the copyright notice there is in keeping with Lunarpedia etc., so it's a good visual aid to see we are all in the same "club"!<br />
:James, feel free to copy any of the design aspects and stick them into Lunarpedia, will be nice to see a cool blue and grey version 8) I think the divs and tables are up to par. Seems to be formatted correctly in Firefox and IE, so there shouldn't be too many issues with other operating systems. I've noticed a slight loss in border on the right side of the copyright notice when using FF, will get that fixed. <br />
:-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:45, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Wikipedia based articles ==<br />
I personally support the public domain license, but isin't it alot easier to just fork all the required articles from Wikipedia, then edit them from there? Many articles should be almost complete copies from Wikipedia. Having a "GFDL" namespace seems confusing. [[User:Nawi|Nawi]] 11:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think there are many articles that should be almost complete copies from Wikipedia. Every Marspedia article is written in the context of building a settlement on Mars, with special orientation to the Martian circumstances. When I started to work for Marspedia I had a similar idea - and an enlightening [[User_talk:Ioneill#Contents from Wikipedia?|discussion with Ioneill]]. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
I suggest no copy-paste from Wikipedia. Simply type in your thoughts as new work and put a Wikipedia link as an external link. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 20:25, 30 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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== Captcha ==<br />
Can the captcha be disabled for registered users or something, because it's pretty annoying. [[User:Nawi|Nawi]] 15:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Nawi, I agree with you. Since I am an ordinary user I can not change this, but I can give you some explanation about the working principle of the captcha. The ''"gibberish captcha"'' is designed to pop up if the first word of an article is going to be changed <small>(Please see also [[Marspedia:Captcha]])</small>. Also, a captcha pops up for edits that add URLs and for Userlogin. We implemented the ''"gibberish captcha"'' when we experienced frequent attacks by a bot inserting gibberish into Marspedia articles. This captcha works fine, but is certainly a bit annoying when creating new articles. Most edits, however, should not trigger this captcha, since most edits leave the article's first word as is. If you experience a different behaviour, please let me know. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Please disable the captcha. It is '''''EXTREMELY''''' annoying. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 13:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Possibly [[user:Strangelv|Strangelv]] can disable it for registered users, but I have no idea how to do it. Perhaps it is not possible for the captchas to distinguish registered users from IPs. After all we have to find a good balance of usability and security. If we had no captchas at all, we would get flooded with a torrent of automated spam (as we experienced before the activation of the captchas). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 18:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Fountdation of an autonomous colony ==<br />
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Is the current FA going to stay on the Main Page forever? I swear is hasn't changed in the last 5 days. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 12:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:The process of nomination and featuring is not maintained on a daily basis, because nobody is willing to spend the effort so far. For a history please see [[Featured articles]]. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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O.K. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 09:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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::If possible, could someone write a step by step guide to featuring an article? I mean the coding procedure. I have FTP access if such access is necessary to change the article. I also need to do so on Lunarpedia, but haven't had time to dig through the code to figure out a way to wing it without screwing things up. I doubt that future users will want to go through all of that. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 07:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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:::Nevermind, I figured it out. You guys put your heads together and decide which article you think should be featured and then clear it with Ian. I have this talk paged watched, so I'll know if you post your final decision here. I'll do the grunt work if Ian finds himself otherwise occupied. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 08:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Featured Article==<br />
I would like to nominate [[Water]] as the next featured article, although it might be useful to quickly go over it and the most recent results from the lander to make sure it's up to date... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 10:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Promotion==<br />
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I've just submitted Lunarpedia and Marspedia to the DMOZ ODP.<br />
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[http://www.dmoz.org/ http://www.dmoz.org/]<br />
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I recommend that you also submit them in order to increase traffic and speed up the process of our links being approved. ODP also populates these to other search engines. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 10:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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:Marspedia has been approved; I resubmitted Lunarpedia. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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= Program strengthening =<br />
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'''''Dear Colleagues,'''''<br />
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Your activity is close to us on spirit, we are glad to your successes.<br />
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We invite you to discuss the new practical idea of association in the unique program of which the mankind didn't know analogues. The given program has the working name «Otherwise continent» (in Russian - ''[http://ppark.livejournal.com/3678.html «Иной континент»]''). Idea being: to begin in different places of the Earth creation of [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Independence_from_Earth real planetary settlements], pertinent for conditions of the Moon, Mars, etc. and to offer in this independent settlements habitation and work for high-grade intelligent families.<br />
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It will allow to provide advancing development of new land culture and an infrastructure of interplanetary programs which shortly all the same become habitual for earth dwellers. I.e. we begin preventive preparation to grow roots on the planets through inclusion of such independent planetary settlements in a land economic turn, developing thus empty earths, applying renewed energy sources, progressive agrotechnologies, «new pedagogics» and many other innovations which still remain a rarity on the Earth.<br />
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Number of inhabitants can exceed and 3 thousand persons in each settlement<br />
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There doesn't exist any basic obstacles from the point of view of engineering-technological reserves for this way, both materials Marspedia, and our long-term researches testify it. <u>But the basic alarm is caused by absence in plans and preparations of disembarkation to the planets qualitatively important for settling of planets of strategy – ''strategy of socio-culture dynamics''.</u> This aspect is in especially powerfully developing by our scientists and designers. Mission of the given so-called '''''[http://ppark.livejournal.com/4837.html planetonautics <sup>(C)</sup>]''' ''strategy also consists in advancing development already on the Earth and at direct participation of all earth dwellers of culture of planetary dwelling …<br />
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I.e. for planetonautics priorities vary into how socio-culture drive technology’s development: socio-culture factors become a source of technological development, rather the reverse, as before, in astronautics, for example.<br />
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The program is supported by some companies and the research centers of Russia, now we search for partners in a consortium abroad. Their interest is clear: after all in the conditions of crisis such strategy will allow to open new applications for pertinent workings out from any of areas – the industries, astronautics, IT, social technologies, the pedagogic, robotics, transport, the different high technologies, many branches of fundamental and applied science etc., i.e. will suffice affairs on all. There will be new workplaces, families will not break up, new knowledge and technologies, social communications etc. All these workings out be required and inhabitants of independent settlements will be engaged, and superfluous products (energy, a foodstuff, new knowledge, techniques, etc.) will be on sale on a foreign market.<br />
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The business plan is developed for the basic land version of independent settlement of type «Solar farm», for three settlements drawings prepare, there is discussion at conferences and on the Internet, students etc. work over themes<br />
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We consider that the most suitable time has now come to pour in this strategy the large finance and to provide to it steady progress.<br />
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Details it suggested to discuss after your acknowledgment of basic interest. <br />
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Yours faithfully,<br />
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Nazym F. Sayfullin,<br />
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The co-ordinator of the program "Independent planetary settlements"<br />
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Moscow, Russia <br />
--[[User:PPark|PPark]] 15:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Dear PPark, I am glad there are people like you all over the world, sharing the same enthusiasm to plan human settlements in places beyond the limits of Earth. Certainly we are interested in networking with your program "Independent planetary settlements". I'm going right ahead to create first links on the new article page [[IPS]]. Welcome aboard! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Farred&diff=7487User talk:Farred2012-09-30T20:21:32Z<p>Miros1: </p>
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<div>Welcome to the flip side. :D - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 22:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Happy to be here. Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I want to get a link to Mike Combs' space settlement FAQ to work, so I will try it here. <br />
::Well, I tried it. It did not work. I removed it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 04:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
How about that one: [http://space.mike-combs.com/spacsetl.htm#moon_mining Space settlement - What is there to mine on the moon?]? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 19:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tried the new link put in by Spriditis. It works fine. It seems to me that links have a tendency to go bad with time. I think the link that I put in worked when I wrote it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 00:20, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I used wiki tags [http://url_path url_title] - <nowiki>[http://url_path url_title]</nowiki>, You used just url.. maybe that was the case. -- [[User:Spriditis|Spriditis]] 15:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 18:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== SPAM ==<br />
Hi! I help [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] on Lunarpedia, and we've developed some tools and methods to help us deal with spam. <br />
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One thing that we do is set the "reason" for deleting a spam page to just "spam." If the original text of the spam remains in any form, it's possible that the spammer will get paid for it and come back and bring his spammer buds along. <br />
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I believe Strangelv has installed his WHUMP tool here, which will auto-delete spam on new pages and block the creator. We'll be tweaking the lists of words, since WHUMP was originally created for lpedia, a political wiki, but I'm sure it will help us keep the spam under control here. Please do tell us common "spam indicator" words that you see in the spam you delete.<br />
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[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:I am happy to see anyone fight the spammers. When I delete a spam page there is automatically a string of text that shows up in the recent changes as the first few bytes of text as part of the reason for deleting the page. This string is only in recent changes and is only available as long as the recent changes is available. Do you want me to erase this string too? I do not delete according to a particular set of words. I check if the posting has a link advertising something that is not Mars or if the text advertises something that is not Mars. In a few of the cases a connection to Mars could have been made if the user had any interest in Mars, but since the user is just a computer program, there is no effort to refer to colonizing Mars. The post is spam and it's history. If I do notice good spam indicator words, I'll let you know. Thanks for being part of the good effort. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 20:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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::I wonder how many legitimate articles are uncategorized -- on LPedia (not connected to Marspedia, Lunarpedia et al. -- it's a political party wiki) that's been the most reliable source for identifying garbage articles as Brian Holtz categorized the last remaining uncategorized pages in the main namespace. Let me wake up enough to start collecting lists of articles to delete and feed into WHUMP. Ideally I'd like to delete the party that posted them originally, but I may chicken out and just have it delete the articles. As WHUMP is flagged as a bot, its activities are hidden by default. Click on 'Show Bots' on Recent Changes to see if it's done anything recently. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 22:14, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:::Done; just a blanket delete with no effort to hunt down and ban the original author -- after al[l, at least one of those might have started legitimately. Moving on to uncategorized pages. The situation here is a lot less bad than I'd assumed from the plea for help. Well, except for the classified as an attack page bit. <br />
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:::I'm having trouble getting WHUMP's actions to show up in RecentChanges even with Show Bots selected though. Wait, going back to default and then pressing show bots it works. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 22:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:::Have we run out of targets on Marspedia already? It may be time to move on to Exodictionary -- it's been getting slowly pummeled for awhile, although it may not be a large percentage as it has more articles than the rest of our wikis put together -- at least until I get Autostub1 working and crank out about 10,000 articles for Lunarpedia... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Congratulations, Strangelv, on getting WHUMP to work. I count 122 title only articles deleted. I did not hear about Marspedia being described as having an attack page. What is the trouble with an attack page? - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 09:49, 23 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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== [http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?client=tmpg&hl=ru&langpair=ru|en&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&u=http://inocont.net/&usg=ALkJrhi0tZ8DczDS3kY5_KeoktduNAaPFw InoCont] ==<br />
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Dear Farred! Thank you for your participation in the development of [[Another Contin(g)ent Concept|the concept of "InoCont"]] and the editorial work you are doing in this area.<br />
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As you know, the international scientific and creative program "Another Contin(g)ent» (www.inocont.net) is developing nearly 4 years, and our aims are to unite creative people of all countries to search for a vector of future discoveries and achievements in all spheres of activity both in space and on Earth. This is - a call for co-organizing an international experiment in the creation and testing of complex models of life and infrastructure of autonomous planetary settlements (APS).<br />
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Extended abstract concepts in the English language is available on the Marspedia (http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Another_Contin%28g%29ent_Concept ).<br />
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Most likely, you will see that our initiative is still evolving without external funding, receives no government support and investment, and relies solely on personal savings and the enthusiasm of volunteers.<br />
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We all believe that in an increasingly globalizing world, experiential understanding of the phenomenon of autonomy is necessary for regeneration of new socially significant meanings. This will not only introduce new ideas to solve the problem of initial survival, but also will open up innovative approaches in the development.<br />
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The "InoСont" Program relies on the principle of "from the complex – to a simple", which means the union of all the inhabitants of Earth in search of solutions for large-scale social settlements on the Moon, Mars and other objects in the solar system. It is able to rethink the problems of life on Earth and to strengthen the fundamental-project basis for innovative development.<br />
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For this paradoxal purpose we develop a unique methodology for forecasting design (FutureDesign) of socio-technological imperatives of development, which will focus on intermediate contests. The first one is planned under the title "UniCont" under the "Cultural Universiade-2013" during the XXVII Summer World Student Games in Kazan, Russia.<br />
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We believe that the development of the niche free competition will be extremely attractive to investors today. The Program provides competitive to attract investments for the implementation of the startups.<br />
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Development of information and the methodological basis of the experiment will focus on network semantic design, business-project games, musical improvization, simulations in virtual worlds and the creation of full-scale APS’ prototype architectural and engineering controls, etc. The achievement of high-level design specifications (and this is - more than half of the success of any innovation) will contribute to broad interdisciplinary projects and their testing in difficult climatic conditions of the Arctic, underwater, underground and other extreme environments.<br />
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Example of APS can become a good practice, working on a team project based on your scientific and cultural interests: that is suitable for extreme conditions, will be effective for milder conditions of the Earth.<br />
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All this requires special support from society and business, liders of culture, high-quality new partners.<br />
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Please help the program "InoСont" by your tremendous experience and recommendations, well-aimed advice to colleagues and students.<br />
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I would be happy personal acquaintance with you and fruitful cooperation.<br />
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I wish you good health and all good things of life<br />
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''Nazym F. Sayfullin, Chairman of the "Planetonautics" Section, Moscow Society of Naturalists (founded in 1805)''<br />
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Welcome to Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/groups/inocont/<br />
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--[[User:PPark|PPark]] 10:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
:To Nazym F. Sayfullin: <br />
::My efforts with the <nowiki>[[Another Contin(g)ent Concept]] article were not undertaken on behalf of InoCont. It is my duty and my privilege as a guest administrator on Marspedia too serve the interest of Marspedia, which is the interest of THE MARS SOCIETY. I see no evidence that InoCont is a legal person capable of owning copyrights. I see no indication that Inocont is anything more than the creation of Nazym F. Sayfullin or PPark. The quality of the material posted by PPark does not suggest scholarly effort. It seems that the intent of Marspedia has been to give contributors a chance to bring their work up to a quality that reflects well upon Marspedia. So I have been trying to improve [[Another Contin(g)ent Concept]]</nowiki> in hope that you get the idea that unfamiliarity with the English language is not an excuse for posting extensive amounts rambling disjointed prose on Marspedia. Claims of official positions with societies do not merit any special consideration on Marspedia unless they can be substantiated by officials of THE MARS SOCIETY. So far I have not had any indication that THE MARS SOCIETY has any interest in promoting InoCont or its program. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 19:43, 28 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Contribution copyright status==<br />
You've made contributions to Marspedia between 1 January and 20 June 2012, a period where there is a problem with the rules for the main namespace, specifically [[Another Contin(g)ent Concept]], [[Coronal Mass Ejections]], and [[Foundation of an Autonomous Colony]]. Do you officially allow your contributions to be released to the public domain? ...And by any chance are you the one who contributed anonymously to [[Autonomous planetary settlement]] from 174.31.99.237? Otherwise we may need to revert those helpful edits.-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 02:17, 23 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I officially allow my contributions to Marspedia to be released to public domain. It seems likely that the contribution from 174.31.99.237 was mine also, but I have no control over the IP addresses that are assigned to me, and I have kept no record. I just reverted that contribution and replaced it with one listed to my Marspedia name. I hope this is helpful. I can make further clean-up edits to <nowiki>[[Autonomous planetary settlement]]</nowiki> if I find the time. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 22:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==To do== <br />
The edit by user:123.115.107.183 on the 16th of July to the Talk:Discussion page related Cnc (computer numerical control) machining to considerations for Earthly use, but CNC machining would be a good compliment to forging on Mars too. It is possible that this IP address editor was making a good faith effort to contribute to the discussion of Mars colonization, but the edit was not in the proper place to be appreciated. I hope to add something about CNC machining when I can do it well and in the proper place. It is somewhat related to [[Colonization strategy]]. I have got [[Talk:Teraforming]] and other things to consider. Too much to do. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 21:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:Something Rose and I noticed a month or so ago was that some of the article-damaging attacks were using an AI that made text that read very much like it was on topic. The only way it was unambigous that it wasn't an attempt at a legitimate contribution was because it was deleting pre-existing content a section at a time, consistent with a common attack strategy.<br />
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:Fortunately, the main attackers singling out Marspedia are running low on non-blocked IP addresses. At least the ones who aren't creating garbage accounts and little else...<br />
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:--[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 01:47, 19 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Deletion reasons:== <br />
*unused file form unknown source with unknown copyright status <br />
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*unused non-English file with unknown copyright status<br />
- [[User:Farred|Farred]] 19:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:check User:LarueOgv <br />
:[[User:Farred|Farred]] 07:47, 31 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Technical Difficulties==<br />
What exactly goes wrong when you edit and what do I need to do to duplicate the problem on my end? -- [[Special:Contributions/173.74.208.113|173.74.208.113]] 06:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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I suppose messaging might work better if I'd remember to log in first, which reminds me of another problem I've been baffled by: why WHUMP is no longer able to log into here. I get this error message:<br />
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the high score is 670<br />
Starting check for site http://marspedia.org<br />
Logging In<br />
Traceback (most recent call last):<br />
File "/[SNIP path]/WHUMP_M814_1247_marsp.py", line 192, in <module><br />
BR.select_form(name="userlogin")<br />
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/mechanize/_mechanize.py", line 530, in select_form<br />
raise FormNotFoundError("no form matching "+description)<br />
mechanize._mechanize.FormNotFoundError: no form matching name 'userlogin'<br />
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...And I've been unable to figure out why. It was working before and only breaks for this wiki out of the five I'm presently running or trying to run [[User:WHUMP|WHUMP]] on. <br />
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Okay, I just hit preview and fot a page full of hyperlinks that are definitely not wanted. The background graphics were intact, and I belivee the text was over the graphics. Is this the problem you're running into? I'm still not sure how it could be caused. ...unless this is something in addition to what you're running into and it's happened since the last time I looked...<br />
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Interestingly, Firefox's built in spell checker isn't working right now as I type this.<br />
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There it goes again. First the links, then the template, and the links are under the graphics and a few DIVs that are part of the template.<br />
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hmm.<br />
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-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 06:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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WHUMP's last ban here was 7 August, which may correspond to the problem unless it corresponds to my disk trouble that took my workstation offline for 2-3 weeks (doesn't look like it). When did the page full of garge links problem start? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 06:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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I've replaced the main directory's non-data php files with a set copied from exodictionary and am attempting to reproduce the problem. I'm not succeeding. Maybe this has been going on longer than I suspected?<br />
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Bonus: WHUMP is now able to log in again! -- so if the problem has been around since at least May (going by the date stamps on the files before I overwrote them, which is the date the attack I knew about was removed), why did it not become a problem for WHUMP until August? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 07:01, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:From your message it seems that you have found the problem that I mentioned on your talk page at Lunarpedia on the 17th of August. The symptoms you describe are consistent with what I see, but I do not notice the problems with WHUMP or Firefox because I do not run these programs. A possibility that I can guess at for staged symptoms is that at one point an attacker got access to the system and later by using that access found a place to make alterations that caused present symptoms. That is as close as I can come to being helpful. I no nothing in particular about programming wikis or setting them up. Good luck. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 10:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I hope the problem is fixed now. I did not see the spam links filling the screen when I edited my talk page last. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 10:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::On the Recent Changes page click on the Show Bots link to see what WHUMP has been up to lately. 8) -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Good work! - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 20:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==whoops==<br />
Yes, I agree that anonymous people should not be allowed to crap up Marspedia. If we force them to create an account, that discourages a lot of spam right there. If they actually create an account and log in, it's far easier to get rid of all their crap; JamesG has a script to help mechanize spam removal. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 20:21, 30 September 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Motivation&diff=7486Motivation2012-09-30T20:11:18Z<p>Miros1: Reverted edits by 87.73.2.26 (Talk) to last revision by Farred</p>
<hr />
<div>Many people like to read and watch science fiction about space travel, especially to [[Mars]], the most habitable planet in our [[solar system]] next to [[Earth]]. The [[public interest]] is growing. But what is the '''motivation''' to really get there, to make the dream come true? This page wants to collect reasons and shall help to find possibilities to encourage more people to spend part of their lives for the realization of a [[settlement]] on Mars. [[NASA]] has already introduced the motivation items ''"Human Evolution" , "Comparative Planetology", "International Cooperation", "Technological Advancement", "Inspiration" and "Investment"''.<ref>[http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/mars/marswhy.html NASA: Why Mars ?]</ref> But let's see if we can find more ...<br />
<br />
==Pioneering spirit==<br />
Mankind has always bred pioneers to face the challenge of new land. The human race has an inherent property to reach for new settlement space and build their houses on the edge and beyond. This impulse rules any financial concerns out.<br />
<br />
==Scientific==<br />
A manned mission may perform more scientific results compared with remote controlled [[:category:rovers|rovers]].<br />
<br />
==Survival of mankind==<br />
Currently mankind is living solely on Earth and is completely dependent on its fragile habitability. A number of possible events can bring mankind to the edge of extinction. A fatal epidemic plague of a virus with the combined characteristics of both ebola and influenza or the deep impact of a large [[asteroid]] may wipe the human race off the planet. But in such critical situation mankind would survive on other planets, because the occurrence of such events at the same time on two planets is extremely unlikely.<br />
<br />
Stephen Hawking put is like that: ''"I believe that the long-term future of the human race must be in space. It will be difficult enough to avoid disaster on planet Earth in the next hundred years, let alone the next thousand, or million. The human race shouldn't have all its eggs in one basket, or on one planet. Let's hope we can avoid dropping the basket until we have spread the load."'' <ref>[http://bigthink.com/ideas/21570]</ref><br />
<br />
==Political reasons==<br />
The three nations with human space access USA, Russia and China are interested to be the first permanent dwellers on the near cosmic bodies. The political heads aim to carve out territories. The first dwellers will have the best chance to get a big piece of land. For fear of going away empty-handed while other nations occupy the Moon and the planets drives the government to support the effort.<br />
<br />
==Profit-making==<br />
Tourism can be a mighty [[business]]. Rich people already spent several million dollars for a week in near-Earth orbit, which is thrilling enough to begin with. A trip to the Moon or even to Mars is even more exciting. A [[manned one-way mission]] to Mars might be a business model.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[What settlers would miss]]<br />
*[[Motives to sell the colonization of Mars]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]<br />
[[Category:Human Considerations]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Caves&diff=7485Caves2012-09-30T20:09:46Z<p>Miros1: Reverted edits by 64.76.149.189 (Talk) to last revision by Farred</p>
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<div>[[Image:sevensisters_strip.jpg|thumb|right|200px|several black spots near Arsia Mons, suspected to be caves]] <br />
<br />
[[Image:188159main_PSP_004847_1745.crop-516.jpg|thumb|right|200px|cave with sunlit wall]] <br />
<br />
Natural '''Caves''' have been found near the [[volcano]] ''[[Arsia Mons]]'' on [[Mars]].<br />
<br />
The caves are a possible location to establish a human [[settlement]]. They could be re-constructed to become big [[habitat]]s. The caves would provide shelter and plenty of space for [[house|housing]]. They could, perhaps, also be a source for [[water]] and rare [[minerals]].<br />
<br />
[[Nadine Barlow]] said: "Caves on Mars could be good places for long-term ice accumulation and that would make them ideal locations to look for life on Mars as well as valuable reservoirs for water to support future human exploration of the planet."<br />
<br />
==Open Issue==<br />
*Is there a danger to occupy volcanic caves for human settlements due to possible volcanic activity?<br />
*Nobody knows the actual geometry of the Martian caves and whether they are usable or not. An [[needed explorations#Caves|exploration]] is necessary to find it out before the start of detailed planning.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Lava tube]]<br />
*[[Volcanic cave settlement]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070402153116.htm ScienceDaily: Are These Caves On Mars?]<br />
*[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070921163609.htm ScienceDaily: NASA Orbiter Finds Possible Cave Skylights On Mars]<br />
*[http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/21sep_caves.htm NASA: Cave Skylights Spotted on Mars]<br />
*[[Lunarp:Lava Tubes|Lunarpedia:Lava Tubes]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category: Geology]]<br />
[[Category: Settlements]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Foundation_of_an_Autonomous_Colony&diff=7484Foundation of an Autonomous Colony2012-09-30T20:04:04Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7468 by 77.28.4.41 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ColonyType}}<br />
The '''Foundation of an Autonomous Colony''' on another cosmic body is one of the most challenging tasks for humanity. Though it requires enormous effort, the goal to expand the influence of mankind throughout the [[Solar system]] is worthwhile. This [[motivation]] has several aspects. This page covers general issues of an autonomous<ref>Autonomous means able to exist independently or being independent in government. an aproximation of the definition in Mirriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition (c) 2003</ref> colony on [[Mars]]. <br />
<br />
[[Image:ColonyWithDomeAndUnderground.png|thumb|right|300px|Colony with [[Multi-layered vault settlement|dome buildings]] and underground facilities.]] <br />
<br />
What is an autonomous colony? The main attribute is [[independence from Earth]]. Once the colony is set up, it provides a [[habitat]] for settlers on the long run, hopefully forever. <br />
The second attribute is a planned and indefinitely stable colony that can thrive from [[local resources]]. Unlike a [[mission with planned death]] the settlers in an autonomous colony have a future for themselves and for their Mars-born [[children]]. The ultimate expression of independence from Earth may be the complete political independence of a colony.<br />
<br />
==Technological issues==<br />
<br />
[[Bringing down Phobos]] before a [[settlement]] is built may help to make [[Mars]] safe for the long term. <br />
<br />
The [[Transport from Earth to Mars|transport of colonists from Earth to Mars]] is a very complicated part of the plan. There are many threats inherent to space travel: [[Solar Radiation|Solar]] & [[Cosmic Radiation|Cosmic]] Radiation, [[Meteorites]], Physical & Mental Illness, etc. Plans will need to be made to deal with every possible problem. <br />
<br />
Since people can not live in the natural [[environmental conditions|environment]] a basic artificial [[habitat]] with [[house]]s, supplies and equipment for a long term stay would be deposited on Mars' surface. The [[equipment for autonomous growth|equipment must be technologically sufficient]] to allow the colonists to grow their own [[food]], build new houses, etc. <br />
<br />
There are many uncertainties about the impact of the Martian environment. The equipment would be tested on [[Earth]] thoroughly, but the influence of the Martian environment cannot be understood completely on Earth. The safest way is an [[unmanned setup of a whole settlement]] by an automated and remote controlled machinery. <br />
<br />
[[Energy]] is the most [[crucial issues|critical resource]]. It is needed for lighting and heating of [[greenhouse]]s, for [[metallurgy]] and production of machines. [[The critical path]] is the generation of enough energy for the production of spare parts for the energy generating systems and greenhouses. In other words: If the energy generating systems and greenhouses can not be maintained endlessly with the amount of energy they produce, an autonomous colony is not feasible.<br />
<br />
==Organizational Issues== <br />
<br />
The preparation cost for a mission like this is tremendous. A [[financial effort estimation]] helps to get an overview. <br />
<br />
Within a small group of colonists, a daily council of all members may be sufficient to address the needs of governance, much in the tradition of the New England town hall meetings. In a growing community some kind of representative [[democracy]] may become necessary, although this type of government may not be well suited to a small colony in a hostile environment.<br />
<br />
As the number of members in a martian [[population]] grows, so will the number of deaths. It will become necessary to conduct [[funeral]]s.<br />
<br />
==Medical Issues== <br />
<br />
===Quarantine=== <br />
Before heading for Mars any crew is [[quarantine|quarantined]] to ensure they do not suffer from infectious diseases. As a result, the Martian colony should be more or less free from pathogenic [[microbes|germs]], which saves medical effort. However, for children born on Mars an even more effective [[vaccination|vaccination program]] will be necessary to stimulate the development of Mars-born [[immune system]]s. <br />
<br />
===Inbreeding=== <br />
The size of the human population must not be too small due to the risk of [[inbreeding depression]]. This can be positively influenced through the use of in-vitro fertilisation from genetic stock for the first child born to every colonial family.<br />
<br />
===Cancer=== <br />
Increased exposure to [[radiation]] may increase the incidence of cancer. Colonists will need shielding from radiation during [[transport from Earth to Mars]] and on Mars' surface, due to the thin [[atmosphere]] and lack of a planetary [[magnetosphere]].<br />
<br />
===Medical care===<br />
Compared with Earth the limited industrial performance of an autonomous colony does not allow the same [[limited medical care|level of medical care]]. High sophisticated accessories for surgery and a great variety of drugs are impossible to produce. Alternatives to standard medicine considered taboo on Earth may be forced upon the growing settlement, such as the use of genetically altered pig organs in emergency transplants.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues==<br />
*Can there be enough energy generated, necessary for infinite maintenance?<br />
*What is the public attitude to such a foundation?<br />
*What skills and technologies are needed to have a small self-sufficient economy rather than a 6-billion-person global economy with its highly interdependent and very specialized jobs and technologies?<br />
<br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}} <br />
<br />
{{Featured_red_ring}}<br />
<br />
==References== <br />
<references/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Concepts]] <br />
[[Category:Manned Missions]] <br />
[[Category:Settlements]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Foundation_of_an_Autonomous_Colony&diff=7483Foundation of an Autonomous Colony2012-09-30T20:02:46Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7469 by 94.23.1.28 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ColonyType}}<br />
The '''Foundation of an Autonomous Colony''' on another cosmic body is one of the most challenging tasks for humanity. Though it requires enormous effort, the goal to expand the influence of mankind throughout the [[Solar system]] is worthwhile. This [[motivation]] has several aspects. This page covers general issues of an autonomous<ref>Autonomous means able to exist independently or being independent in government. an aproximation of the definition in Mirriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition (c) 2003</ref> colony on [[Mars]]. <br />
<br />
[[Image:ColonyWithDomeAndUnderground.png|thumb|right|300px|Colony with [[Multi-layered vault settlement|dome buildings]] and underground facilities.]] <br />
<br />
What is an autonomous colony? The main attribute is [[independence from Earth]]. Once the colony is set up, it provides a [[habitat]] for settlers on the long run, hopefully forever. <br />
The second attribute is a planned and indefinitely stable colony that can thrive from [[local resources]]. Unlike a [[mission with planned death]] the settlers in an autonomous colony have a future for themselves and for their Mars-born [[children]]. The ultimate expression of independence from Earth may be the complete political independence of a colony.<br />
<br />
==Technological issues==<br />
<br />
[[Bringing down Phobos]] before a [[settlement]] is built may help to make [[Mars]] safe for the long term. <br />
<br />
The [[Transport from Earth to Mars|transport of colonists from Earth to Mars]] is a very complicated part of the plan. There are many threats inherent to space travel: [[Solar Radiation|Solar]] & [[Cosmic Radiation|Cosmic]] Radiation, [[Meteorites]], Physical & Mental Illness, etc. Plans will need to be made to deal with every possible problem. <br />
<br />
Since people can not live in the natural [[environmental conditions|environment]] a basic artificial [[habitat]] with [[house]]s, supplies and equipment for a long term stay would be deposited on Mars' surface. The [[equipment for autonomous growth|equipment must be technologically sufficient]] to allow the colonists to grow their own [[food]], build new houses, etc. <br />
<br />
There are many uncertainties about the impact of the Martian environment. The equipment would be tested on [[Earth]] thoroughly, but the influence of the Martian environment cannot be understood completely on Earth. The safest way is an [[unmanned setup of a whole settlement]] by an automated and remote controlled machinery. <br />
<br />
[[Energy]] is the most [[crucial issues|critical resource]]. It is needed for lighting and heating of [[greenhouse]]s, for [[metallurgy]] and production of machines. [[The critical path]] is the generation of enough energy for the production of spare parts for the energy generating systems and greenhouses. In other words: If the energy generating systems and greenhouses can not be maintained endlessly with the amount of energy they produce, an autonomous colony is not feasible.<br />
<br />
==Organizational Issues== <br />
<br />
The preparation cost for a mission like this is tremendous. A [[financial effort estimation]] helps to get an overview. <br />
<br />
Within a small group of colonists, a daily council of all members may be sufficient to address the needs of governance, much in the tradition of the New England town hall meetings. In a growing community some kind of representative [[democracy]] may become necessary, although this type of government may not be well suited to a small colony in a hostile environment.<br />
<br />
As the number of members in a martian [[population]] grows, so will the number of deaths. It will become necessary to conduct [[funeral]]s.<br />
<br />
==Medical Issues== <br />
<br />
===Quarantine=== <br />
Before heading for Mars any crew is [[quarantine|quarantined]] to ensure they do not suffer from infectious diseases. As a result, the Martian colony should be more or less free from pathogenic [[microbes|germs]], which saves medical effort. However, for children born on Mars an even more effective [[vaccination|vaccination program]] will be necessary to stimulate the development of Mars-born [[immune system]]s. <br />
<br />
I use spreadsheets a lot and the large srecen of the Touch Pro 2 makes it very easy to view and edit. Use spreadsheets for business and personal data.Use MS Notes for notes.Use Mobile Word mainly for viewing documents. Make a lot of notes within Pocket Outlook so I can sync with all my devices and have the data available. Instant on' of a Smartphone means making notes quickly is much easier then booting my laptop (for security reasons for my work laptop we cannot use hibernation).<br />
<br />
===Cancer=== <br />
Increased exposure to [[radiation]] may increase the incidence of cancer. Colonists will need shielding from radiation during [[transport from Earth to Mars]] and on Mars' surface, due to the thin [[atmosphere]] and lack of a planetary [[magnetosphere]].<br />
<br />
===Medical care===<br />
Compared with Earth the limited industrial performance of an autonomous colony does not allow the same [[limited medical care|level of medical care]]. High sophisticated accessories for surgery and a great variety of drugs are impossible to produce. Alternatives to standard medicine considered taboo on Earth may be forced upon the growing settlement, such as the use of genetically altered pig organs in emergency transplants.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues==<br />
*Can there be enough energy generated, necessary for infinite maintenance?<br />
*What is the public attitude to such a foundation?<br />
*What skills and technologies are needed to have a small self-sufficient economy rather than a 6-billion-person global economy with its highly interdependent and very specialized jobs and technologies?<br />
<br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}} <br />
<br />
{{Featured_red_ring}}<br />
<br />
==References== <br />
<references/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Concepts]] <br />
[[Category:Manned Missions]] <br />
[[Category:Settlements]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Internet&diff=7482Internet2012-09-30T20:01:50Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7471 by 94.23.1.28 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>The first permanent [[settlement]] on [[Mars]] will be of a size that does not necessarily require a distributed computer network. Nevertheless, there is the need for a mutual communication between people on Mars and people on [[Earth]]. The Martian settlement can, therefore, be connected to the terrestrial Internet, which in fact makes it an '''Interplanetary Internet'''. <br />
<br />
The speed of any communication between Mars and Earth is limited to the [[speed of light]], which results in a minimum delay (when the planets are closest to each other) of about 8 minutes for '''one way'''. This delay increases to approximately 18 minutes when the planets are in [[conjunction]]. This causes another issue as the Sun will be blocking the Line Of Sight (LOS) between the planets, communication signals will need to be re-routed via an [[Deep Space Network|interplanetary network]],<ref>[http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsn/ NASA's Deep Space Network]</ref> increasing the time taken for signals to travel between Earth and Mars. Without special buffering the result of a ''mouse click'' appears 16 minutes (minimum), or over 36 minutes (maximum), later on the screen. Time for HTML download will add to this lag. So, at worst, a complete terrestrial web page may take over 40 minutes to display on a Mars-based computer. <br />
<br />
==Concept== <br />
The first step can be a single computer and a radio transmitter brought from Earth to Mars. On Earth there is a corresponding radio transmitter, or network of global transmitters, and a buffered interface to Earth's Internet. Internet access may only be available during certain time frames (depending on Earth/Mars phase and availability of communication satellites). <br />
<br />
An extension is possible to widen the time windows with additional transmitters on other continents and relay stations orbiting Earth and Mars. <br />
<br />
The buffer on Earth side should have some additional functionality: <br />
* Collect all files (e.g. pictures) that are related to a requested HTML page and send them together with the HTML page. This reduces the time from ''mouse click'' to complete screen display of up to 40 minutes. <br />
* Reduce resolution of pictures if appropriate. <br />
* Compress data stream. <br />
* Add redundancy to the signal to allow data reconstruction for lost bits. The re-transmission of TCP data packets is awfully time consuming in this case and should be avoided. <br />
* Another method is to construct a new method of HTML transmission (similar to the cut-down WAP service for cell phones and other mobile devices). Images and graphics may be stripped from websites leaving only HTML text. <br />
<br />
==Solutions to the Internet communications "lag"== <br />
===The first Mars base=== <br />
In the first instance (when the first colony is being constructed) it may not be possible to have a functioning "Internet" as we currently understand it. Colonists should, however, have email contact for personal and science-based contact with Earth. <br />
<br />
===An established Mars base=== <br />
In time, the technological capabilities of a Mars base will increase. Also, technological advances on Earth will have accelerated, so an established Mars colony may receive new technologies as it becomes available on Earth. <br />
<br />
Assuming an established Mars base will consist of several buildings, or separate settlement sites spaced several kilometers apart, computer communications will be very important. The establishment of a basic "Mars Internet" would therefore be desirable to improve communications around the planet. A Mars Internet (or ''Marsnet'') could be routed via satellites in Mars orbit or lines may be laid across the Mars surface directly. Using technology developed on Earth, ''Marsnet'' would develop quickly, and depending on the number of colonists, the first Mars websites may be created rapidly. <br />
<br />
However advanced a ''Marsnet'' becomes, communications with the terrestrial Internet will still be limited by the speed of light. There is only one solutions to this problem: Cache (store) some of the terrestrial Internet contents on Mars-based servers, with regularly uploading new information or on demand. The current number of websites on the Internet totals over 100 million (as of Feb. 2007).<ref>[http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/misc/sizeofweb.html How many websites are there? ''Boutell.com'']</ref> By the time a Mars colony is established, this number will have exponentially increased. So, only a subset can be cached. The selected contents may comprise "mission critical" sites such as [[NASA]]'s or [[ESA]]'s web pages, Wikipedia, some online news magazines, scientific and technical sites, artwork, etc. <br />
<br />
==First use cases== <br />
*Technology information from Earth to Mars <br />
*Scientific results from Mars to Earth <br />
*Personal E-Mails in both directions <br />
<br />
==Martian Net== <br />
Eventually the number of internet servers and web homepages located in Mars will increase, thus solving many of the problems with the use of Earth based homepages.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues== <br />
*What minimal transmitter (size, power) is required for a radio link from Earth to Mars (surface to surface)? <br />
*What data rate can be achieved by simple technology? <br />
*What time windows exist with a single transmitter on both sides? <br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references/> <br />
<br />
[[Category: Concepts]] <br />
[[Category: Hi-tech]] <br />
[[Category: Communication]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Minerals&diff=7481Minerals2012-09-30T19:56:46Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7473 by 216.67.241.18 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Minerals''' are [[natural resources]] needed as raw material for setup and extension of [[settlement|settlements]] on [[Mars]]. From recent unmanned missions some valuable minerals have been found, most of them by the [[Mössbauer spectrometer]] [[MIMOS II]].<br />
<br />
==Goethite==<br />
Chemical formula: α-FeO(OH)<br />
<br />
This mineral has been identified near the landing zones of the [[rover|rovers]] [[Spirit]] and [[Opportunity]], for example at "[[Columbia Hills]]". This mineral was probably created from [[iron]] under the influence of liquid [[water]].<br />
<br />
==Hematite==<br />
Chemical formula: α-Fe<sub>2</sub>O<sub>3</sub><br />
<br />
This mineral has been found at the landing zone of Opportunity.<br />
<br />
==Olivine==<br />
Chemical formula: (Mg,Fe)<sub>2</sub>SiO<sub>4</sub><br />
<br />
This mineral has been found in [[Gusev Crater]].<br />
<br />
==Salt==<br />
[[Calcium carbonate]], [[magnesium]], [[sodium]], [[potassium]], [[chloride]] and [[perchlorate]] have been found by the [[Phoenix]] lander (http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/09_09_pr.php). Chloride, perhaps ''table salt'', have also been found by [[Mars Odyssey]].<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7302591.stm BBC: Mars is 'covered in table salt']</ref> <br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
==Open Issues==<br />
*How exactly can iron, magnesium, etc. be extracted out of these minerals? What we need here are simple processes, allowing the exploitation with limited chemical and energy resources on Mars. The processing should be strictly [[hi-tech versus lo-tech|lo-tech]].<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category: Geology]]<br />
[[category:chemistry]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Electronics&diff=7480Electronics2012-09-30T19:55:00Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7474 by 94.23.1.28 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:electronics_mix.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Printed circuit boards with a variety of electronic elements]]<br />
<br />
'''Electronics''' is a technology for [[automation]] and the basis for modern information technology. For remote controlled explorations and during the setup phase of a [[settlement]] on [[Mars]] it is required for [[radio link]] and data processing.<br />
<br />
==Electron tube==<br />
This is the oldest kind of electronics. It is made from [[glass]] and [[:category:metal|metal]]. Compared with semiconductor electronics the tubes are big, power consuming, but they are easy to produce. They are [[radiation]]-proof, which makes it suitable for long term applications under Martian [[environmental conditions]]. Nevertheless, the [[wear lifespan]] is limited by abrasion of the heating electrode.<br />
<br />
==Semiconductors==<br />
This is the modern kind of electronics. It allows ultra-compact devices with low power consumption, but it requires a hi-tech industry to produce the material and the structures. Since the material is damageable by radiation, it must be shielded carefully and has a limited wear lifespan depending on the intensity of the radiation. The electrical parameters are strongly influenced by the temperature.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Pneumatics]]<br />
*[[Electricity]]<br />
<br />
{{stub}}<br />
[[Category:Hi-tech]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Greenhouse&diff=7479Greenhouse2012-09-30T19:52:58Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7475 by 37.59.236.149 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>[[image:Eden_project.jpg|thumb|right|300px|[[The Eden Project]]] (near St Austell, Cornwall, UK) is a terrestrial example of the possible use of large ''biomes'' as greenhouses and life support for Mars colonies. ''Image credit: Jürgen Matern]] <br />
Growing [[:category:plants|plants]] in a '''Greenhouse''' delivers [[oxygen]] and [[food]]. It can play an important part in human recreation ([[Mars Garden Wins Gold at London’s Chelsea Flower Show (MarsHome.org)|Mars Garden]]) and may be the place for [[funeral]]s. The [[sunlight]] is not bright enough on Mars to allow usual terrestrial plants to thrive, but it provides a valuable part of light energy for plants. Additional [[energy]] is necessary for lighting and heating. <br />
<br />
The greenhouse will be constructed from transparent material, allowing maximum sunlight to pass, generating an artificial "[[greenhouse effect]]". The spectral properties of the material should be optimized to match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll, maximizing the energy gain. <br />
<br />
Plants need a mix of air pressure and temperature. The greenhouse must be strong enough to hold that air pressure, and it must be [[insulation|insulated]] to hold the temperature inside. Photosynthesis works only at fairly high temperatures.<br />
<br />
==Side-lit Greenhouse Concept== <br />
<br />
[[Image:Greenhouse_marsfoundation.jpg|thumb|left|300px|The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a side-lit greenhouse.]] <br />
The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a greenhouse involves the maximum use of local materials to avoid waste, maximize energy input and optimize space. Spawned from the [[Hillside settlement]] design, the greenhouse would most likely be located inside/next to a hill side (possibly in the location of [[Candor Chasma]]). Therefore [[regolith]] or some other absorbant material could be suspended above the greenhouse to protect occupants and plants from [[solar radiation|harmful radiation]]. The source of light would therefore be directed from the side, via an array of adjustable mirrors. A system of vents and ducts would allow warm air to circulate, perhaps even used to heat the main habitat.<br />
<br />
==Underground Greenhouse Concept==<br />
[[Image:Underground Greenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Underground Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
<br />
If geothermal energy is not available the heating will consume large amounts of electrical energy. In this case the sum of energy used for lighting and heating must be considered. An underground greenhouse is easier to insulate to hold warmth inside. On the other hand the effort of lighting is higher, since no direct sunlight is used. This concept has some additional advantages: It is [[meteorites|meteorite]]-safe and [[radiation]]-safe.<br />
<br />
[[caves|Natural caves]] and [[artificial cave]]s can be utilized to build such an underground greenhouse, which requires a preparation with high effort in either case. The maintenance is quite cheap, for the ambient temperatures are steady and the radiation levels are low, so it is a good long term solution. A combination of greenhouse and living space for the settlers is suggested.<br />
<br />
==Water-shield Greenhouse Concept==<br />
<br />
[[Image:WaterShieldGreenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Water-shield Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
[[Hydrogen]] does a good job absorbing [[cosmic radiation]]. [[Water]] contains highly concentrated hydrogen, and hence serves as a good radiation shield. On the other hand it is highly transparent for visible light and UV. The combination of both makes it an interesting material for greenhouse shielding.<br />
<br />
Under a strong pressure resistent housing the water is placed in a thick layer. It absorbes the dangerous parts of cosmic radiation and [[sunlight]] and passes most of the spectral parts needed by [[human]]s and plants. Additionally, it helps to buffer daily temperature variations because of its high specific heat capacity.<br />
<br />
The layering could be as follows: The outer layer is a construction of [[steel]] and [[glass]], providing enough strength for the difference in [[atmosphere|atmospheric pressure]]. It also serves as insulation for [[temperature]] differences. Additional sheets of glass or [[Synthetic materials|plastics]] improve the insulation effect. A [[self-healing puncture protection]] should be considered. The innermost layer is the water. It can be held by transparent canisters.<br />
<br />
==Multiplying Sunlight==<br />
[[Image:MultipleMirrorsForGreenhouse.png|thumb|left|300px|Multiple Mirrors for Greenhouse]] <br />
<br />
A [[solar concentrator]] is a set of mirrors that can be used to bring more sunlight into the greenhouse than the base area of the greenhouse receives directly from the sun. Three times the amount of Martian sunlight should be enough to serve terrestrial plants. During good weather periods this allows growing vegetables without additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Flora and fauna==<br />
Plants can be grown either in liquid fertilizer ([[hydroponics]]) or in [[soil]]. Many plants live in symbiosis with [[microbes]] and [[insects]]. [[Bee]]s can be used to pollinate the blossoms for fruit plants. Probably, the greenhouse is less labor-intensive with as many natural processes as possible, including decay of dead parts of plants to [[compost]]. The growth of flora and fauna under the low Martian [[gravity]] bears some uncertainties.<br />
<br />
==Nutrition and Energy Calculations==<br />
Based upon the figures in the [[food]] and [[sunlight]] articles the following calculations can be carried out for an artificially lit greenhouse:<br />
<br />
The minimum size of cropland per person is about 365 m<sup>2</sup>. The needed light energy can be assumed with 1000 kWh per m<sup>2</sup> and year. The result is an annual amount of 365 MWh per person. In other words: An average illumination power of 41,67 kW per person is required.<br />
<br />
The usage of fluorescent lamps with an efficiency factor of 30% results in a requirement of about 140 kW per person in electrical energy. The overall efficiency of food production with artificially lit greenhouses is less then 1 permille, or in other words, to produce food with a content of 1 kWh the amount of more than 1 MWh in electricity must be spent.<br />
<br />
Parts of the required light can possibly be provided by direct or indirect sunlight. Heating the greenhouse will require additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues== <br />
*How long can plants survive without sunlight (e.g. during a dust storm)?<br />
*How many persons are needed to work in the greenhouse to produce enough food for a hundred persons?<br />
*How much energy is required for heating, especially during long lasting dust storms? This question can not be answered without an [[experimental setup#greenhouse heating|experimental setup]].<br />
*What temperature and air pressure do plants need?<br />
*What air pressure is needed for persons to work in the greenhouse? <br />
*What transparent materials match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll?<br />
*Do plants need wind? How can it be provided?<br />
*What is known about radiation tolerance of food crop?<br />
<br />
==See Also== <br />
*[[Research on greenhouses & assumptions]]<br />
*[[Experimental setup]] <br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.marshome.org/archives/2007/03/sidelit_greenho.php The Mars Foundation Side-lit Greenhouse design.]<br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}}<br />
<br />
{{Featured_red_ring}}<br />
<br />
[[category:biospherics]] <br />
[[category:greenhouse]]<br />
[[category:agriculture]]</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User:Farred&diff=7478User:Farred2012-09-30T19:51:19Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>Yes, I agree that anonymous people should not be allowed to crap up Marspedia. If we force them to create an account, that discourages a lot of spam right there. If they actually create an account and log in, it's far easier to get rid of all their crap; JamesG has a script to help mechanize spam removal. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 19:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Arsia_Mons&diff=7477Arsia Mons2012-09-30T19:46:42Z<p>Miros1: Undo revision 7472 by 95.155.212.152 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Arsia Mons''' is an extinct [[shield volcano|shield]] [[volcano]] in the [[Tharsis]] region near the equator. It is part of the [[Tharsis Montes]] group of volcanos.<br />
[[Image:Arsia_Mons.jpg|thumb|right|px|Two views of Arsia Mons]]<br />
===Caves===<br />
Seven [[cave]] entrances have been discovered on the sides of Arsia Mons. These caves could contain reserves of [[water ice]] or even life. They are possible locations for a [[volcanic cave settlement|cave settlement]].<br />
[[category:geography]]<br />
[[category:volcano]]<br />
{{stub}}</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Greenhouse&diff=7476Talk:Greenhouse2012-09-30T19:30:34Z<p>Miros1: </p>
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<div>Open issues:<br />
How long can plants survive without sunlight (e.g. during a dust storm)? <br />
:-Plants can live their entire lives without sunlight if adequate artificial light is provided. Check with your local agricultural extension office to find out how long specific species can survive in total darkness.<br />
<br />
How many persons are needed to work in the greenhouse to produce enough food for a hundred persons? <br />
:-It depends on what you're growing, as some plants yield more calories per square foot than others. Various gardening writers (John Jeavons and Steve Solomon leap to mind) have calculated how much square footage is needed to feed a person using their gardening methods. Look these up, multiply by 100. Then contact a greenhouse or high-tunnel grower who grows the crops you want to grow, and find out what the area of their greenhouses are and how many employees they have to work that area. Apply that ratio to the area you'd need to grow food for 100 people.<br />
<br />
How much energy is required for heating, especially during long lasting dust storms? This question can not be answered without an experimental setup. <br />
:-This question most certainly can be answered without an experimental setup, as HVAC technicians routinely calculate the sizes of furnaces needed to heat a given volume. Figure the volume of your greenhouse. Determine what the ambient temperature and high and low windspeeds are (Does NASA have this data?). These figures, along with the R-value of the greenhouse material itself (and surrounding soil, if the greenhouse is earth-bermed or underground), will allow you to determine the rate of heat loss from your greenhouse. If you know the volume of your greenhouse, what the rate of heat loss is, and what temperature you want to maintain, you can determine how many BTUs of heat you need to generate. Look at the energy requirments of an electric furnace that generates that amount of heat.<br />
<br />
What temperature and air pressure do plants need? <br />
:-Depends on the plant. Again, check with your local extension office. As a rule of thumb, look at plants natural environments. For example, plants that grow high in the mountains do better at lower pressures, while plants that prefer to grow at sea level or underwater need higher pressures. "Coles" (brassicas) like broccoli, cabbage, spincach, kale, and Brussels sprouts can grow in cooler temperatures, whereas tomatoes, peppers, and okra require much warmer temps.<br />
<br />
What air pressure is needed for persons to work in the greenhouse? <br />
:-The Navy (or any diving instructor) can give you information on human survivability at high temperatures. I'd imagine both NASA and the Air Force would have information on low pressures.<br />
<br />
Do plants need wind? How can it be provided? <br />
:-Most plants don't need wind for normal development, though many require it for natural reproduction. In the absence of wind, this can be substituted with hand pollination by workers (something that would be necessary anyway in the absence of other pollinators, like bees and flies), but wind is simple enough to create. Just turn on a fan. Fans are standard equipment in greenhouses, both for ventilation (to regulate temperature), and to avoid stagnant, moist air, which can lead to fungal diseases like damping off and powdery mildew. Since a greenhouse on Mars could not be opened. for ventilation, air conditioning, as well as heat, may be needed on sunny days. It depends on your rate of heat loss versus rate of solar heat gain.<br />
<div style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
:-although its true some plants don't require wind others do,for instance plants that produce rapid heavy foliage or fruit such as hemp and tomatoes will break under there own weight if not exposed to wind. wind causes plants to produces the chemical ethylene a growth retardant. this chemical as well as making the plant shorter also thickens it's stems allowing it to bare more weight. fans are often used by indoor growers in place of wind.<br />
<div style="text-align: left;"> <br />
<br />
<br />
<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.221.191</small><br />
<br />
Thank you for clearing up these issues. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 07:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Some of these paragraphs seem to contain valuable information that can be inserted into the article. ''Greenhouse'' is a really big topic, which will force us to fork the article sooner or later. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The edit of User:94.23.1.28 at 15:44 hours on 29 September 2012== <br />
This edit was related to Greenhouses but from an Earthly perspective. This wiki is about Mars colonization. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 22:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wind comment==<br />
Wind is needed for plants that disperse their pollen into the air, such as Ragweed. I'm not sure which food plants are pollinated in this manner; I know that tomato plants started indoors on Earth won't set fruit without using a spray called Blossom Set, which comes in a bottle with a finger pump. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 19:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Experimental_setup&diff=7156Talk:Experimental setup2012-06-18T06:19:08Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Experimental setup assumptions for greenhouse heating == <br />
:The assumptions for the experiment are not best related to what is needed for an economic greenhouse on Mars. Plants do not need 20 C constantly to survive and produce a crop. If they go down to 2 C many plants just slow down. In my household garden I did not worry about plants dying unless there was a frost. Since some plants can grow at 12000 feet altitude, they should be able to get by with only 63% of atmospheric pressure. People can operate at a little less than one half an atmosphere on the side of Mount Everest if they have oxygen enrichment, but no plants or animals live at 0.15psi pressure as found on Mars. Heating from sunlight is exactly what would be needed for an economical greenhouse on Mars. There should be flat windows level with the ground for a soil sheltered Martian greenhouse. The windows should be triple or quadruple paned glass for good insulation. About 8 feet wide and 400 foot long windows of multiple 8 inch square panes in a steel frame could hold the pressure and allow considerable heating by real greenhouse effect (as opposed to the atmospheric heating of planets that is only similar to the heating in greenhouses). Numerous windows with the corresponding greenhouses beneath them could be separated by enough space for long flat mirrors to direct a double dose of sunlight into one greenhouse row without shading the next if that is found to be necessary. I suspect that instead there will be a need for radiators to provide sufficient cooling. <br />
:At 0.63 atmospheres pressure, there would be 39 tons of upward force on each 8 foot square section of greenhouse roof. That could be reasonably anchored to the dirt with structural steel. Plants are very adaptable and could be bred to get along with less intense than usual Earth level sunlight, as indeed many plants on Earth now are adapted to growing in shady areas. Growing food would be more expensive on Mars than on Earth, at least at first, but if there is an economic product on Mars that can pay for the greenhouses, they are not impossible.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::My intention is to reduce the experimental setup effort by defining a constant temperature, only for the experiment. Yes, you are right, the real greenhouse temperature will not be constant due to the fact that plants live in cycles as much as almost every living thing is. Plants can, however, not transform light energy to chemical energy at low temperatures very efficiently. We have to find an optimum, because light energy is a valuable resource on Mars. So it won't help us to slow down the metabolism of the plants. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 19:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::My idea for a greenhouse on Mars would be to have it heated by sunlight and the greenhouse effect. This should have the window roof of the greenhouse covered at night perhaps with the mirror and thermal insulating cover sharing structure. At window uncovering in the morning, there would still be too little light to maintain the greenhouse temperature, but plant growth and metabolism could still occur as the temperature slowly drops. As the sun gets higher in the sky, the greenhouse is heated again by sunlight. The temperature does not remain constant but within a range in which plants grow with reasonable efficiency. Making a mathematical model of such a greenhouse would be a daunting project for me. I still have other unfinished projects to get to. My guess would be that direct solar heating would be the most economical form of heating. <br />
:::Occasionally dust storms on Mars last for months. Farming on Mars like farming on Earth may have to put up with some crop losses. Predicting these storms in advance would be an advantage. <br />
:::I have heard rumors that plants can survive greater radiation doses than people. Four panes of glass would not stop enough radiation for a human living space but plants might thrive. <br />
:::Agriculture on Mars should be mechanized much as it is mechanized in the United States, or more so. A 1000 acre wheat farm is typical in the United states. I can only guess at the number of employees on such a farm. I guess 4. As to the number of employees for a Martian greenhouse, the number of employees per acre on a wheat farm should be a more reasonable target than the number of employees per acre in the typical Earthly greenhouse. The initial construction of a highly automated set of greenhouses would be a considerable task.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 09:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC) changed (much it is) to (much as it is) --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sounds good, may be too good. I really like the idea of a passive greenhouse, for it would save huge amounts of energy. Problem is, glass reflects a substantial part of the incoming sunlight, especially from the infrared. Additionally, the Martian sunlight is not as powerful as the terrestrial sunlight. You seem to be quite sure about the idea. Can you give calculation or other evidence about the viability of such a passive greenhouse? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:43, 7 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I would like to give you numbers to substantiate my claim that greenhouse agriculture is possible on Mars, and awaits only the solution of economic problems to become a reality. First, it is not necessary to have the full intensity of sunlight that exists at the position of Earth's orbit to sustain agriculture. Edmonton Canada at 53.5 degrees north latitude is in the center of a rich agricultural region. Because the sun never gets more than 60 degrees above the horizon during the middle of summer, the area never gets more than 87% of the sun intensity that occurs when the sun is at zenith. Iceland which is all north of the 63 degree latitude never gets more than 77% of the direct overhead solar intensity, but still grows adequate grass for sheep, potatoes, and in greenhouses other vegetables. <br />
:::The mirrors that I suggest for Mars for increasing the incident sunlight on the greenhouse roof would not be what I would call passive. Mechanisms would need to move them to track the sun during the day and to cover the greenhouse roof at night. Accurate modeling would be needed to discover with reasonable certainty whether such mirrors are needed or not. Flat mirrors should be able to about double the light intensity on the greenhouse, giving more intense sunlight than at either Edmonton or Iceland. So, if greenhouses can work for growing vegetables in Iceland, they should work on Mars. The reflection of light from a glass/gas surface is about 4%. This varies as the angle increases from normal. About 70% of the light should get through a quadruple pane greenhouse roof. This should be sufficient. The reflection of infrared is actually an advantage, because it helps to keep heat in the greenhouse. Accurate modeling should indicate whether triple or quadruple pane windows are needed. If the need for augmenting the ordinary sunlight on Mars is more than I suspect, there is also the possibility of a slight cylindrical curvature in the mirrors that direct sunlight into the greenhouse, concentrating it. All that stands between us and agriculture on Mars is money and engineering.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC) (small change) --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just a thought: How does water condensation on the inside of the greenhouse affect heat and light from sunlight? Also consider effects of dripping condensation on materials framing the glass. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 06:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Experimental_setup&diff=7155Talk:Experimental setup2012-06-18T06:16:37Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Experimental setup assumptions for greenhouse heating == <br />
:The assumptions for the experiment are not best related to what is needed for an economic greenhouse on Mars. Plants do not need 20 C constantly to survive and produce a crop. If they go down to 2 C many plants just slow down. In my household garden I did not worry about plants dying unless there was a frost. Since some plants can grow at 12000 feet altitude, they should be able to get by with only 63% of atmospheric pressure. People can operate at a little less than one half an atmosphere on the side of Mount Everest if they have oxygen enrichment, but no plants or animals live at 0.15psi pressure as found on Mars. Heating from sunlight is exactly what would be needed for an economical greenhouse on Mars. There should be flat windows level with the ground for a soil sheltered Martian greenhouse. The windows should be triple or quadruple paned glass for good insulation. About 8 feet wide and 400 foot long windows of multiple 8 inch square panes in a steel frame could hold the pressure and allow considerable heating by real greenhouse effect (as opposed to the atmospheric heating of planets that is only similar to the heating in greenhouses). Numerous windows with the corresponding greenhouses beneath them could be separated by enough space for long flat mirrors to direct a double dose of sunlight into one greenhouse row without shading the next if that is found to be necessary. I suspect that instead there will be a need for radiators to provide sufficient cooling. <br />
:At 0.63 atmospheres pressure, there would be 39 tons of upward force on each 8 foot square section of greenhouse roof. That could be reasonably anchored to the dirt with structural steel. Plants are very adaptable and could be bred to get along with less intense than usual Earth level sunlight, as indeed many plants on Earth now are adapted to growing in shady areas. Growing food would be more expensive on Mars than on Earth, at least at first, but if there is an economic product on Mars that can pay for the greenhouses, they are not impossible.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 01:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::My intention is to reduce the experimental setup effort by defining a constant temperature, only for the experiment. Yes, you are right, the real greenhouse temperature will not be constant due to the fact that plants live in cycles as much as almost every living thing is. Plants can, however, not transform light energy to chemical energy at low temperatures very efficiently. We have to find an optimum, because light energy is a valuable resource on Mars. So it won't help us to slow down the metabolism of the plants. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 19:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::My idea for a greenhouse on Mars would be to have it heated by sunlight and the greenhouse effect. This should have the window roof of the greenhouse covered at night perhaps with the mirror and thermal insulating cover sharing structure. At window uncovering in the morning, there would still be too little light to maintain the greenhouse temperature, but plant growth and metabolism could still occur as the temperature slowly drops. As the sun gets higher in the sky, the greenhouse is heated again by sunlight. The temperature does not remain constant but within a range in which plants grow with reasonable efficiency. Making a mathematical model of such a greenhouse would be a daunting project for me. I still have other unfinished projects to get to. My guess would be that direct solar heating would be the most economical form of heating. <br />
:::Occasionally dust storms on Mars last for months. Farming on Mars like farming on Earth may have to put up with some crop losses. Predicting these storms in advance would be an advantage. <br />
:::I have heard rumors that plants can survive greater radiation doses than people. Four panes of glass would not stop enough radiation for a human living space but plants might thrive. <br />
:::Agriculture on Mars should be mechanized much as it is mechanized in the United States, or more so. A 1000 acre wheat farm is typical in the United states. I can only guess at the number of employees on such a farm. I guess 4. As to the number of employees for a Martian greenhouse, the number of employees per acre on a wheat farm should be a more reasonable target than the number of employees per acre in the typical Earthly greenhouse. The initial construction of a highly automated set of greenhouses would be a considerable task.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 09:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC) changed (much it is) to (much as it is) --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sounds good, may be too good. I really like the idea of a passive greenhouse, for it would save huge amounts of energy. Problem is, glass reflects a substantial part of the incoming sunlight, especially from the infrared. Additionally, the Martian sunlight is not as powerful as the terrestrial sunlight. You seem to be quite sure about the idea. Can you give calculation or other evidence about the viability of such a passive greenhouse? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:43, 7 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I would like to give you numbers to substantiate my claim that greenhouse agriculture is possible on Mars, and awaits only the solution of economic problems to become a reality. First, it is not necessary to have the full intensity of sunlight that exists at the position of Earth's orbit to sustain agriculture. Edmonton Canada at 53.5 degrees north latitude is in the center of a rich agricultural region. Because the sun never gets more than 60 degrees above the horizon during the middle of summer, the area never gets more than 87% of the sun intensity that occurs when the sun is at zenith. Iceland which is all north of the 63 degree latitude never gets more than 77% of the direct overhead solar intensity, but still grows adequate grass for sheep, potatoes, and in greenhouses other vegetables. <br />
:::The mirrors that I suggest for Mars for increasing the incident sunlight on the greenhouse roof would not be what I would call passive. Mechanisms would need to move them to track the sun during the day and to cover the greenhouse roof at night. Accurate modeling would be needed to discover with reasonable certainty whether such mirrors are needed or not. Flat mirrors should be able to about double the light intensity on the greenhouse, giving more intense sunlight than at either Edmonton or Iceland. So, if greenhouses can work for growing vegetables in Iceland, they should work on Mars. The reflection of light from a glass/gas surface is about 4%. This varies as the angle increases from normal. About 70% of the light should get through a quadruple pane greenhouse roof. This should be sufficient. The reflection of infrared is actually an advantage, because it helps to keep heat in the greenhouse. Accurate modeling should indicate whether triple or quadruple pane windows are needed. If the need for augmenting the ordinary sunlight on Mars is more than I suspect, there is also the possibility of a slight cylindrical curvature in the mirrors that direct sunlight into the greenhouse, concentrating it. All that stands between us and agriculture on Mars is money and engineering.--[[User:Farred|Farred]] 17:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC) (small change) --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 23:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just a thought: How does water condensation on the inside of the greenhouse affect heat and light from sunlight? [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 06:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Medicine&diff=7138Talk:Medicine2012-06-18T04:36:32Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Removing numerous errors== <br />
Numerous errors exist in the links of this article as it was copied form Wikipedia and it does not come with the history of the Wikipedia contributors. I will replace it with a link to the Wikipedia article. - [[User:Farred|Farred]] 02:11, 3 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==It would be nice==<br />
if the article were supplemented by information on how "Medicine" would be different on Mars, such as difficulty of treating broken bones in a suit, effects of reduced gravity on clotting disorders, isolation of sick people, etc. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 04:36, 18 June 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User:Miros1&diff=6953User:Miros12012-05-22T16:57:12Z<p>Miros1: Created page with 'I help block the spammers and delete their nasty footprints. I also fix typos, spellcheckeritis, and grammar errors when I see them.'</p>
<hr />
<div>I help block the spammers and delete their nasty footprints. I also fix typos, spellcheckeritis, and grammar errors when I see them.</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User:Farred&diff=6952User:Farred2012-05-22T16:54:44Z<p>Miros1: Moved to Talk page</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Farred&diff=6951User talk:Farred2012-05-22T16:52:44Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>Welcome to the flip side. :D - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 22:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Happy to be here. Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I want to get a link to Mike Combs' space settlement FAQ to work, so I will try it here. <br />
::Well, I tried it. It did not work. I removed it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 04:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
How about that one: [http://space.mike-combs.com/spacsetl.htm#moon_mining Space settlement - What is there to mine on the moon?]? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 19:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tried the new link put in by Spriditis. It works fine. It seems to me that links have a tendency to go bad with time. I think the link that I put in worked when I wrote it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 00:20, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I used wiki tags [http://url_path url_title] - <nowiki>[http://url_path url_title]</nowiki>, You used just url.. maybe that was the case. -- [[User:Spriditis|Spriditis]] 15:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 18:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== SPAM ==<br />
Hi! I help [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] on Lunarpedia, and we've developed some tools and methods to help us deal with spam. <br />
<br />
One thing that we do is set the "reason" for deleting a spam page to just "spam." If the original text of the spam remains in any form, it's possible that the spammer will get paid for it and come back and bring his spammer buds along. <br />
<br />
I believe Strangelv has installed his WHUMP tool here, which will auto-delete spam on new pages and block the creator. We'll be tweaking the lists of words, since WHUMP was originally created for lpedia, a political wiki, but I'm sure it will help us keep the spam under control here. Please do tell us common "spam indicator" words that you see in the spam you delete.<br />
<br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Farred&diff=6950User talk:Farred2012-05-22T16:51:37Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>Welcome to the flip side. :D - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 22:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Happy to be here. Thanks. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 16:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I want to get a link to Mike Combs' space settlement FAQ to work, so I will try it here. <br />
::Well, I tried it. It did not work. I removed it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 04:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
How about that one: [http://space.mike-combs.com/spacsetl.htm#moon_mining Space settlement - What is there to mine on the moon?]? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 19:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tried the new link put in by Spriditis. It works fine. It seems to me that links have a tendency to go bad with time. I think the link that I put in worked when I wrote it. --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 00:20, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I used wiki tags [http://url_path url_title] - <nowiki>[http://url_path url_title]</nowiki>, You used just url.. maybe that was the case. -- [[User:Spriditis|Spriditis]] 15:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks --[[User:Farred|Farred]] 18:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== SPAM ==<br />
Hi! I help [[Strangelv]] on Lunarpedia, and we've developed some tools and methods to help us deal with spam. <br />
<br />
One thing that we do is set the "reason" for deleting a spam page to just "spam." If the original text of the spam remains in any form, it's possible that the spammer will get paid for it and come back and bring his spammer buds along. <br />
<br />
I believe Strangelv has installed his WHUMP tool here, which will auto-delete spam on new pages and block the creator. We'll be tweaking the lists of words, since WHUMP was originally created for lpedia, a political wiki, but I'm sure it will help us keep the spam under control here. Please do tell us common "spam indicator" words that you see in the spam you delete.<br />
<br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User:Farred&diff=6949User:Farred2012-05-22T16:49:32Z<p>Miros1: Created page with '== SPAM == Hi! I help Strangelv on Lunarpedia, and we've developed some tools and methods to help us deal with spam. One thing that we do is set the "reason" for deleting …'</p>
<hr />
<div>== SPAM ==<br />
Hi! I help [[Strangelv]] on Lunarpedia, and we've developed some tools and methods to help us deal with spam. <br />
<br />
One thing that we do is set the "reason" for deleting a spam page to just "spam." If the original text of the spam remains in any form, it's possible that the spammer will get paid for it and come back and bring his spammer buds along. <br />
<br />
I believe Strangelv has installed his WHUMP tool here, which will auto-delete spam on new pages and block the creator. We'll be tweaking the lists of words, since WHUMP was originally created for lpedia, a political wiki, but I'm sure it will help us keep the spam under control here. Please do tell us common "spam indicator" words that you see in the spam you delete.<br />
<br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Old_Home&diff=6948Talk:Old Home2012-05-22T16:36:23Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page has been protected to avoid anonymous attacks. <br />
<br />
=Main Page development=<br />
I have made an attempt to upgrade the front page to improve design, ease of use and accessability to the wiki. I have tried to focus on accessibility for new users as we need to increase online interest in our efforts.<br />
<br />
Some recent updates:<br />
*Inclusion of a "[[Featured articles]]" on the front page (see [[user:Ioneill]] for development details).<br />
*Creating [[Marspedia:About]] page to move bulk text from main page.<br />
*Creating "Marspedia News" section on front page - for development purposes (i.e. new site developments/announcements), '''not''' to advertise new content.<br />
<br />
Unresolved areas:<br />
*Copyright notice, should it be moved to a less-prominent position?<br />
<br />
For now, over to you! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 04:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<hr/><br />
<br />
:I like the new appearance. It is better than ever! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It looks wonderful; I can't wait to steal it for Lunarpedia. 8) The copyright rules notice is too large and unwieldy, and as you may have noticed, in over a year I've not figured out a more compact solution that imparts the required information. Maybe a terse summary with a link to a more detailed version? How much can we pare down the summary if so? --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 08:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hi James, I have seen several occurrences of "8)" in your talk. What does it mean? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::It's an emoticon, akin to ''':-)'''. I wear glasses, thus the eight instead of the colon... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Cool, glad to get people's opinion on it. Kinda melded the Wikipedia format with our own - hopefully we'll be a unique set of wikis in time. I've been looking at the copyright notice, and I think we can work with what we have for now. We must keep in mind, we are in the development phase of this project, so there are going to be a lot of rough edges. As we will (hopefully) have a continuous, and increasing influx of articles, newcomers will need to read the GFDL terms and conditions first. Also, having the copyright notice there is in keeping with Lunarpedia etc., so it's a good visual aid to see we are all in the same "club"!<br />
:James, feel free to copy any of the design aspects and stick them into Lunarpedia, will be nice to see a cool blue and grey version 8) I think the divs and tables are up to par. Seems to be formatted correctly in Firefox and IE, so there shouldn't be too many issues with other operating systems. I've noticed a slight loss in border on the right side of the copyright notice when using FF, will get that fixed. <br />
:-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:45, 23 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia based articles ==<br />
I personally support the public domain license, but isin't it alot easier to just fork all the required articles from Wikipedia, then edit them from there? Many articles should be almost complete copies from Wikipedia. Having a "GFDL" namespace seems confusing. [[User:Nawi|Nawi]] 11:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think there are many articles that should be almost complete copies from Wikipedia. Every Marspedia article is written in the context of building a settlement on Mars, with special orientation to the Martian circumstances. When I started to work for Marspedia I had a similar idea - and an enlightening [[User_talk:Ioneill#Contents from Wikipedia?|discussion with Ioneill]]. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Captcha ==<br />
Can the captcha be disabled for registered users or something, because it's pretty annoying. [[User:Nawi|Nawi]] 15:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Nawi, I agree with you. Since I am an ordinary user I can not change this, but I can give you some explanation about the working principle of the captcha. The ''"gibberish captcha"'' is designed to pop up if the first word of an article is going to be changed <small>(Please see also [[Marspedia:Captcha]])</small>. Also, a captcha pops up for edits that add URLs and for Userlogin. We implemented the ''"gibberish captcha"'' when we experienced frequent attacks by a bot inserting gibberish into Marspedia articles. This captcha works fine, but is certainly a bit annoying when creating new articles. Most edits, however, should not trigger this captcha, since most edits leave the article's first word as is. If you experience a different behaviour, please let me know. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please disable the captcha. It is '''''EXTREMELY''''' annoying. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 13:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Possibly [[user:Strangelv|Strangelv]] can disable it for registered users, but I have no idea how to do it. Perhaps it is not possible for the captchas to distinguish registered users from IPs. After all we have to find a good balance of usability and security. If we had no captchas at all, we would get flooded with a torrent of automated spam (as we experienced before the activation of the captchas). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 18:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fountdation of an autonomous colony ==<br />
<br />
Is the current FA going to stay on the Main Page forever? I swear is hasn't changed in the last 5 days. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 12:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:The process of nomination and featuring is not maintained on a daily basis, because nobody is willing to spend the effort so far. For a history please see [[Featured articles]]. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
O.K. [[User:T.Neo|T.Neo]] 09:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If possible, could someone write a step by step guide to featuring an article? I mean the coding procedure. I have FTP access if such access is necessary to change the article. I also need to do so on Lunarpedia, but haven't had time to dig through the code to figure out a way to wing it without screwing things up. I doubt that future users will want to go through all of that. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 07:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Nevermind, I figured it out. You guys put your heads together and decide which article you think should be featured and then clear it with Ian. I have this talk paged watched, so I'll know if you post your final decision here. I'll do the grunt work if Ian finds himself otherwise occupied. -- [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 08:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Featured Article==<br />
I would like to nominate [[Water]] as the next featured article, although it might be useful to quickly go over it and the most recent results from the lander to make sure it's up to date... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 10:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Promotion==<br />
<br />
I've just submitted Lunarpedia and Marspedia to the DMOZ ODP.<br />
<br />
[http://www.dmoz.org/ http://www.dmoz.org/]<br />
<br />
I recommend that you also submit them in order to increase traffic and speed up the process of our links being approved. ODP also populates these to other search engines. - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 10:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Marspedia has been approved; I resubmitted Lunarpedia. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 16:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
= Program strengthening =<br />
<br />
'''''Dear Colleagues,'''''<br />
<br />
Your activity is close to us on spirit, we are glad to your successes.<br />
<br />
We invite you to discuss the new practical idea of association in the unique program of which the mankind didn't know analogues. The given program has the working name «Otherwise continent» (in Russian - ''[http://ppark.livejournal.com/3678.html «Иной континент»]''). Idea being: to begin in different places of the Earth creation of [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Independence_from_Earth real planetary settlements], pertinent for conditions of the Moon, Mars, etc. and to offer in this independent settlements habitation and work for high-grade intelligent families.<br />
<br />
It will allow to provide advancing development of new land culture and an infrastructure of interplanetary programs which shortly all the same become habitual for earth dwellers. I.e. we begin preventive preparation to grow roots on the planets through inclusion of such independent planetary settlements in a land economic turn, developing thus empty earths, applying renewed energy sources, progressive agrotechnologies, «new pedagogics» and many other innovations which still remain a rarity on the Earth.<br />
<br />
Number of inhabitants can exceed and 3 thousand persons in each settlement<br />
<br />
There doesn't exist any basic obstacles from the point of view of engineering-technological reserves for this way, both materials Marspedia, and our long-term researches testify it. <u>But the basic alarm is caused by absence in plans and preparations of disembarkation to the planets qualitatively important for settling of planets of strategy – ''strategy of socio-culture dynamics''.</u> This aspect is in especially powerfully developing by our scientists and designers. Mission of the given so-called '''''[http://ppark.livejournal.com/4837.html planetonautics <sup>(C)</sup>]''' ''strategy also consists in advancing development already on the Earth and at direct participation of all earth dwellers of culture of planetary dwelling …<br />
<br />
I.e. for planetonautics priorities vary into how socio-culture drive technology’s development: socio-culture factors become a source of technological development, rather the reverse, as before, in astronautics, for example.<br />
<br />
The program is supported by some companies and the research centers of Russia, now we search for partners in a consortium abroad. Their interest is clear: after all in the conditions of crisis such strategy will allow to open new applications for pertinent workings out from any of areas – the industries, astronautics, IT, social technologies, the pedagogic, robotics, transport, the different high technologies, many branches of fundamental and applied science etc., i.e. will suffice affairs on all. There will be new workplaces, families will not break up, new knowledge and technologies, social communications etc. All these workings out be required and inhabitants of independent settlements will be engaged, and superfluous products (energy, a foodstuff, new knowledge, techniques, etc.) will be on sale on a foreign market.<br />
<br />
The business plan is developed for the basic land version of independent settlement of type «Solar farm», for three settlements drawings prepare, there is discussion at conferences and on the Internet, students etc. work over themes<br />
<br />
We consider that the most suitable time has now come to pour in this strategy the large finance and to provide to it steady progress.<br />
<br />
Details it suggested to discuss after your acknowledgment of basic interest. <br />
<br />
Yours faithfully,<br />
<br />
Nazym F. Sayfullin,<br />
<br />
The co-ordinator of the program "Independent planetary settlements"<br />
<br />
Moscow, Russia <br />
--[[User:PPark|PPark]] 15:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Dear PPark, I am glad there are people like you all over the world, sharing the same enthusiasm to plan human settlements in places beyond the limits of Earth. Certainly we are interested in networking with your program "Independent planetary settlements". I'm going right ahead to create first links on the new article page [[IPS]]. Welcome aboard! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Universal_bricks&diff=3958Talk:Universal bricks2008-11-10T11:23:38Z<p>Miros1: fixed a formatting tag</p>
<hr />
<div>Needs links to [[Multi-layered_dome_settlement]] and [[Arch_segments]]. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 21:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Space intentionally left blank for previous universal bricks chat <br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 11:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "can you slop the universal bricks stuff into the discussion page and<br />
i'll tidy it up?"<br />
<snip><br />
*Strangelv is working on a replacement {sds}MarsDrive{eds}for Marspedia. There have<br />
been no contributions since he deleted the existing article for being a<br />
copyright violation<br />
*Strangelv says, "well previously existing acticle"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "lol"<br />
*Strangelv sees there's still a bunch of stuff from Lunarpedia that needs to be<br />
brought over to Marspedia. Like virtually all of the stub tags...<br />
*Strangelv sticks to plain old {sdc}Stub{edc}as one template to port over is plenty<br />
for him at the moment<br />
*Strangelv: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=MarsDrive<br />
*Strangelv says, "In many ways, it looks like a Martian Artemis Society<br />
International"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "MASI?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "that would be a good universal brick name"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "lol"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue Structural ..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Infrastructure?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "ook, good one"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Sounds too Dilbertian, though"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue seems pretty good though"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue [insert something here] Modeling?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Multi-layered_dome_settlement<br />
oooh, lookie!"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Problem: it's a dome"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Seriosu problem"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "we were talking about using universal bricks with an inflatable<br />
inside"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Use them for a rounded foundation?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "one thing in the chat i lost was to make the bricks concave on one<br />
side..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Yes, to be used to get the roucgh form of a pressure structure<br />
inside its rectangular form"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Possible way to show this in the commercial product: make the<br />
blocks clear except for the interior -facing sides?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "that's making the blocks overly complicated..."<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Arch_segments"<br />
*Strangelv hmms.<br />
*Strangelv says, "So you make a cylinder, dow do you install the rounded ends?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "you're thinking too hard"<br />
*You tickle Strangelv, giving no quarter.<br />
*Strangelv says, "Doh."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Three types"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Square, cylindrical, and spherical"<br />
*Strangelv says, "The Lunar Habitat comes with X bricks, Y connectors, and two<br />
colonists. Regolith not included."<br />
*Strangelv tries to figure out the spherical. They're probably not going to be<br />
consistent in size<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "i'm thinking triangular for the spherical"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "giant buckyball"<br />
<snip><br />
*Strangelv says, "Buckminster Geodesic. Thank you."<br />
<snip><br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 11:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Universal_bricks&diff=3957Talk:Universal bricks2008-11-10T11:21:36Z<p>Miros1: </p>
<hr />
<div>Needs links to [[Multi-layered_dome_settlement]] and [[Arch_segments]]. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 21:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Space intentionally left blank for previous universal bricks chat <br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 11:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "can you slop the universal bricks stuff into the discussion page and<br />
i'll tidy it up?"<br />
<snip><br />
*Strangelv is working on a replacement {sds}MarsDrive{eds}for Marspedia. There have<br />
been no contributions since he deleted the existing article for being a<br />
copyright violation<br />
*Strangelv says, "well previously existing acticle"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "lol"<br />
*Strangelv sees there's still a bunch of stuff from Lunarpedia that needs to be<br />
brought over to Marspedia. Like virtually all of the stub tags...<br />
*Strangelv sticks to plain old {{Stub}} as one template to port over is plenty<br />
for him at the moment<br />
*Strangelv: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=MarsDrive<br />
*Strangelv says, "In many ways, it looks like a Martian Artemis Society<br />
International"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "MASI?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "that would be a good universal brick name"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "lol"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue Structural ..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Infrastructure?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "ook, good one"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Sounds too Dilbertian, though"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue seems pretty good though"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Modular Analogue [insert something here] Modeling?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Multi-layered_dome_settlement<br />
oooh, lookie!"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Problem: it's a dome"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Seriosu problem"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "we were talking about using universal bricks with an inflatable<br />
inside"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Use them for a rounded foundation?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "one thing in the chat i lost was to make the bricks concave on one<br />
side..."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Yes, to be used to get the roucgh form of a pressure structure<br />
inside its rectangular form"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Possible way to show this in the commercial product: make the<br />
blocks clear except for the interior -facing sides?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "that's making the blocks overly complicated..."<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Arch_segments"<br />
*Strangelv hmms.<br />
*Strangelv says, "So you make a cylinder, dow do you install the rounded ends?"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "you're thinking too hard"<br />
*You tickle Strangelv, giving no quarter.<br />
*Strangelv says, "Doh."<br />
*Strangelv says, "Three types"<br />
*Strangelv says, "Square, cylindrical, and spherical"<br />
*Strangelv says, "The Lunar Habitat comes with X bricks, Y connectors, and two<br />
colonists. Regolith not included."<br />
*Strangelv tries to figure out the spherical. They're probably not going to be<br />
consistent in size<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "i'm thinking triangular for the spherical"<br />
*Rose/Miros says, "giant buckyball"<br />
<snip><br />
*Strangelv says, "Buckminster Geodesic. Thank you."<br />
<snip><br />
[[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 11:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)</div>Miros1http://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Universal_bricks&diff=3956Talk:Universal bricks2008-11-09T21:00:19Z<p>Miros1: New page: Needs links to Multi-layered_dome_settlement and Arch_segments. ~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>Needs links to [[Multi-layered_dome_settlement]] and [[Arch_segments]]. [[User:Miros1|Miros1]] 21:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)</div>Miros1