Carbon dioxide - Revision history

RichardWSmith: /* Notes on Atmosphere */ Improved formatting.

2024-09-20T13:29:49Z

Notes on Atmosphere: Improved formatting.

RichardWSmith: /* In situ Production */ Mars likely formed more sulphates rather than carbonates.

2024-08-30T09:23:44Z

In situ Production: Mars likely formed more sulphates rather than carbonates.

RichardWSmith: /* Concentration */ improved clarity of sentence

2022-06-14T21:21:36Z

Concentration: improved clarity of sentence

RichardWSmith: Noted that there are thick deposits of CO2 at the souther pole and added a reference.

2022-06-03T18:13:36Z

Noted that there are thick deposits of CO2 at the souther pole and added a reference.

Kee.nethery: /* How Submarines remove carbon dioxide Destin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay. */

2021-11-16T21:44:38Z

How Submarines remove carbon dioxide Destin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.

Kee.nethery: /* How Submarines remove carbon dioxideDestin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay. */

2021-11-16T21:42:26Z

How Submarines remove carbon dioxideDestin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.

Kee.nethery: /* How Submarines remove carbon dioxideDestin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay. */

2021-11-16T21:41:13Z

How Submarines remove carbon dioxideDestin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.

Kee.nethery: /* Settlement atmosphere */

2021-11-16T21:40:23Z

Settlement atmosphere

Michel Lamontagne at 12:44, 4 June 2021

2021-06-04T12:44:29Z

RichardWSmith at 02:39, 4 June 2021

2021-06-04T02:39:09Z

@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 ==Notes on Atmosphere==
-CO2 forms clouds in the Martian atmosphere, which is rare.  (Most planetary atmospheres do not form clouds of its primary constituent.)  Mars is so cold that CO2 freezes out in the winter, causing the planet's air pressure to fall by as much as 30%. See [[Atmosphere]] for more details.
+CO<sub>2</sub> forms clouds in the Martian atmosphere, which is rare.  (Most planetary atmospheres do not form clouds of its primary constituent.)  Mars is so cold that CO2 freezes out in the winter, causing the planet's air pressure to fall by as much as 30%. See [[Atmosphere]] for more details.
-CO2 is a [[Greenhouse gas]] and if more carbon dioxide could be outgassed from the crust somehow, the planet would warm.  See [[Terraforming]] for more details.
+CO<sub>2</sub> is a [[Greenhouse gas]] and if more carbon dioxide could be outgassed from the crust somehow, the planet would warm.  See [[Terraforming]] for more details.
 ==Notes at Poles==

@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 ==[[In-situ resource utilization|In situ Production]]==
-CO2 will be extracted [[In-situ resource utilization|in-situ]] by [[atmospheric processing]], or from carbonate rocks to provide larger industrial quantities to feed industry<ref>https://www.nature.com/articles/ngeo971</ref> Carbonate rocks are common on Earth, but seem to be rarer on Mars.  It is possible that Mars has more carbonate rock formations which are buried.
+CO2 will be extracted [[In-situ resource utilization|in-situ]] by [[atmospheric processing]], or from carbonate rocks to provide larger industrial quantities to feed industry<ref>https://www.nature.com/articles/ngeo971</ref> Carbonate rocks are common on Earth, but seem to be rarer on Mars.  It is now thought that Martian water was acidic, which would favour the creation of sulphates.
 It is very likely that large amounts of CO2 will be found in local clays which will out-gas if the clay is warmed.  (Some clays can hold 9% of their mass in CO2 when cold.)

@@ Line 42: / Line 42: @@
 ==Concentration==
-Concentration of CO2 on Earth is was 275 parts per million (ppm) in pre-industrial times.  Currently it has risen above 400 ppm.  Increasing concentration improves plant production rates, however the effect is non linear and reaches a peak of 20% improvement in yields at about 1,200 ppm.<ref>University of California, Agriculture and Natural ressources https://ucanr.edu/blogs/NurseryFlower/</ref>  This may also be affected by pressure, if low pressure greenhouse are developed for Mars.
+Concentration of CO2 on Earth is was 275 parts per million (ppm) in pre-industrial times.  Currently it has risen above 400 ppm.  Increasing concentration improves plant growth rates, however the effect is non linear and reaches a peak of 20% improvement in yields at about 1,200 ppm.<ref>University of California, Agriculture and Natural ressources https://ucanr.edu/blogs/NurseryFlower/</ref>  This may also be affected by pressure, if low pressure greenhouse are developed for Mars.
 [[File:CO2 concentration.jpg|thumb|Effect of CO2 concentration on plant production]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 3 June 2022
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	CO2 is a [[Greenhouse gas]] and if more carbon dioxide could be outgassed from the crust somehow, the planet would warm. See [[Terraforming]] for more details.		CO2 is a [[Greenhouse gas]] and if more carbon dioxide could be outgassed from the crust somehow, the planet would warm. See [[Terraforming]] for more details.
		+
		+	==Notes at Poles==
		+	In the short northern winter CO2 will frost out. In the longer southern winter large masses of CO2 will frost or snow out of the atmosphere significantly lowering the planet's atmospheric pressure. The study, "Carbon Dioxide Ice Glaciers at the South Pole of Mars" suggests that the CO2 at the South Pole is much deeper than previously thought, being over 1 km thick in basins. <ref>https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/2022JE007193</ref> This is a much larger amount of CO2 trapped at the poles than previously thought.

	==Concentration==		==Concentration==

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 The Sabatier process can be used in place of photosynthesis to complete the atmospheric part of the carbon cycle. [[Bioreactor#Methanotrophs|Methanotrophic]] synthesis of carbohydrates from [[methane]] would be required to complete the carbon metabolic cycle without the use of plants.  Or food can be supplied from Earth or Mars for a partial cycle, where [[Methane]] from the Sabatier process can be stored for use as a propellant.
-==How Submarines remove carbon dioxide<ref>Destin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.</ref>==
+==How Submarines remove carbon dioxide <ref>Destin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.</ref>==
 Submarines are a fairly good analog for a Mars habitat, a sealed system that has to manufacture oxygen and remove carbon dioxide.
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 Primary uses Monoethanolamine or MEA. MEA is sprayed on the air to increase the MEA surface area with the air. MEA absorbs CO<sub>2</sub> from the air. CO<sub>2</sub> rich MEA gets pumped into a heater. The MEA is boiled at a high pressure which causes the CO<sub>2</sub> to distill out first. CO<sub>2</sub> is compressed and pushed out of the boat into the sea. Submariner spouses complain about the MEA smell from the uniforms when they return home. The MEA smell permeates everything.
-Secondary CO<sub>2</sub> scrubber uses Lithium Hydroxide LiOH. Lithium Hydroxide absorbs CO2 but in a submarine it’s a one use process. The canisters need to remain sealed until they are going to be used. LiOH powder can sprinkled around on surfaces to absorb CO<sub>2</sub>. This is the same technology used for CO<sub>2</sub> removal in spacesuits.<br>
+Secondary CO<sub>2</sub> scrubber uses Lithium Hydroxide LiOH. Lithium Hydroxide absorbs CO2 but in a submarine it’s a one use process. The canisters need to remain sealed until they are going to be used. LiOH powder can be sprinkled around on surfaces to absorb CO<sub>2</sub>. This is the same technology used for CO<sub>2</sub> removal in spacesuits.<br>
-LiOH<sub>(s)</sub> + CO<sub>2(g)</sub> -> Li<sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3(s)</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>(g)</sub> <ref>CARBON DIOXIDE REMOVAL – THERMODYNAMICS. Nasa.gov. Retrieved 16 November 2021, from https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/519347main_AP_ST_CO2Removal_Therm.pdf.</ref><br>
+LiOH<sub>(s)</sub> + CO<sub>2(g)</sub> -> Li<sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3(s)</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>(g)</sub> <ref>Carbon Dioxide Removal – Thermodynamics. Nasa.gov. Retrieved 16 November 2021, from https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/519347main_AP_ST_CO2Removal_Therm.pdf.</ref><br>
-The reaction can be reversed
+Although the reaction can be reversed, neither the ISS nor submarines do so.
 ==[[In-situ resource utilization|In situ Production]]==

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 Submarines have two processes for removing CO<sub>2</sub>, primary extractor is powered and has no consumables, the secondary is low tech but has consumables (typically used when the primary is undergoing maintenance or repair).
-Primary uses Monoethanolamine or MEA. MEA is sprayed on the air to increase the MEA surface area with the air. MEA absorbs CO<sub>2</sub> from the air. CO<sub>2</sub> rich MEA gets pumped into a heater. The MEA is boiled at a high pressure which causes the CO<sub>2</sub> to distill out first. CO<sub>2<sub> is compressed and pushed out of the boat into the sea. Submariner spouses complain about the MEA smell from the uniforms when they return home. The MEA smell permeates everything.
+Primary uses Monoethanolamine or MEA. MEA is sprayed on the air to increase the MEA surface area with the air. MEA absorbs CO<sub>2</sub> from the air. CO<sub>2</sub> rich MEA gets pumped into a heater. The MEA is boiled at a high pressure which causes the CO<sub>2</sub> to distill out first. CO<sub>2</sub> is compressed and pushed out of the boat into the sea. Submariner spouses complain about the MEA smell from the uniforms when they return home. The MEA smell permeates everything.
 Secondary CO<sub>2</sub> scrubber uses Lithium Hydroxide LiOH. Lithium Hydroxide absorbs CO2 but it’s a one use process. The canisters need to remain sealed until they are going to be used. LiOH powder can sprinkled around on surfaces to absorb CO<sub>2</sub>. This is the same technology used for CO<sub>2</sub> removal in spacesuits.<br>

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:40, 16 November 2021
Line 16:		Line 16:

	The Sabatier process can be used in place of photosynthesis to complete the atmospheric part of the carbon cycle. [[Bioreactor#Methanotrophs\|Methanotrophic]] synthesis of carbohydrates from [[methane]] would be required to complete the carbon metabolic cycle without the use of plants. Or food can be supplied from Earth or Mars for a partial cycle, where [[Methane]] from the Sabatier process can be stored for use as a propellant.		The Sabatier process can be used in place of photosynthesis to complete the atmospheric part of the carbon cycle. [[Bioreactor#Methanotrophs\|Methanotrophic]] synthesis of carbohydrates from [[methane]] would be required to complete the carbon metabolic cycle without the use of plants. Or food can be supplied from Earth or Mars for a partial cycle, where [[Methane]] from the Sabatier process can be stored for use as a propellant.
		+
		+	==How Submarines remove carbon dioxide<ref>Destin Sandlin (2021). How Do Nuclear Submarines Make Oxygen?- Smarter Every Day 251 [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ; SmarterEveryDay.</ref>==
		+	Submarines are a fairly good analog for a Mars habitat, a sealed system that has to manufacture oxygen and remove carbon dioxide.
		+
		+	Submarines have two processes for removing CO<sub>2</sub>, primary extractor is powered and has no consumables, the secondary is low tech but has consumables (typically used when the primary is undergoing maintenance or repair).
		+
		+	Primary uses Monoethanolamine or MEA. MEA is sprayed on the air to increase the MEA surface area with the air. MEA absorbs CO<sub>2</sub> from the air. CO<sub>2</sub> rich MEA gets pumped into a heater. The MEA is boiled at a high pressure which causes the CO<sub>2</sub> to distill out first. CO<sub>2<sub> is compressed and pushed out of the boat into the sea. Submariner spouses complain about the MEA smell from the uniforms when they return home. The MEA smell permeates everything.
		+
		+	Secondary CO<sub>2</sub> scrubber uses Lithium Hydroxide LiOH. Lithium Hydroxide absorbs CO2 but it’s a one use process. The canisters need to remain sealed until they are going to be used. LiOH powder can sprinkled around on surfaces to absorb CO<sub>2</sub>. This is the same technology used for CO<sub>2</sub> removal in spacesuits.<br>
		+	2LiOH<sub>(s)</sub> + CO<sub>2(g)</sub> -> Li<sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3(s)</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>(g)</sub> <ref>CARBON DIOXIDE REMOVAL – THERMODYNAMICS. Nasa.gov. Retrieved 16 November 2021, from https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/519347main_AP_ST_CO2Removal_Therm.pdf.</ref><br>
		+	The reaction can be reversed

	==[[In-situ resource utilization\|In situ Production]]==		==[[In-situ resource utilization\|In situ Production]]==

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 ==Settlement atmosphere==
 [[File:Colony CO2 treatment.png|thumb|600x600px]]
-Carbon dioxide is required in the [[Air|settlement atmosphere]] for plant metabolism.  Standard concentration on Earth is increasing, so the value is a moving target.  However, a concentration between 300 ppm (0,03%) and 1,000 ppm (0,1%) is considered acceptable<ref>Carbon dioxyde concentrations<nowiki/>https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5</ref>. Nuclear submarines have varying carbon dioxide levels that can reach 9000 ppm in normal operations. A CO<sub>2</sub> enriched environment may be beneficial for the growth of plants in [[greenhouse|greenhouses]] or [[photobioreactor|photobioreactors]].
+Carbon dioxide is required in the [[Air|settlement atmosphere]] for plant metabolism.  Standard concentration on Earth is increasing, so the value is a moving target.  However, a concentration between 300 ppm (0,03%) and 1,000 ppm (0,1%) is considered acceptable<ref>Carbon dioxyde concentrations<nowiki/>https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5</ref>. Nuclear submarines have varying carbon dioxide levels that can reach 9000 ppm in normal operations, but average between 3-4000ppm<ref>High CO2 exposures: https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#47</ref>. A CO<sub>2</sub> enriched environment may be beneficial for the growth of plants in [[greenhouse|greenhouses]] or [[photobioreactor|photobioreactors]].
 The Sabatier process can be used in place of photosynthesis to complete the atmospheric part of the carbon cycle. [[Bioreactor#Methanotrophs|Methanotrophic]] synthesis of carbohydrates from [[methane]] would be required to complete the carbon metabolic cycle without the use of plants.  Or food can be supplied from Earth or Mars for a partial cycle, where [[Methane]] from the Sabatier process can be stored for use as a propellant.

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 :The reaction is: CO<sub>2</sub>(carbon dioxide) + 2H<sub>2</sub>O (water) + photons (light energy) → C<sub>(n)</sub>H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>(m)</sub> (carbohydrate) + O<sub>2</sub>(oxygen)+ H<sub>2</sub>O (water)<ref>[[w:Photosynthesis|Photosynthesis- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis]]</ref>
-Humans require that carbon dioxide levels be low in the air, so that CO2 in the blood can diffuse outwards into the air in the lungs.  There can be plenty of oxygen in the air, but if CO2 goes much over 1% of the air pressure, then flow of CO2 out of the body is slowed.  OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration) has established a permissible Exposure Limit of 5,000 parts per million (ppm) or 0.5% of CO2 in the air, averaged over an 8 hour work day.  At 10,000 ppm (1.0%) CO2 may cause drowsiness.  At 4% to 5% it is immediately dangerous to life or health (gasping for breath, dizziness, confusion, headaches, shortness of breath).  At 80,000 ppm (8% of the air pressure) it will cause unconsciousness and then death.  These responses vary by individual (depending on how healthy they are), and on the length of the exposure.  The treatment for too high CO2 concentration is to immediately move the subject to an area with low CO2, to allow the dangerous CO2 level in the blood to drop.
+Humans require that carbon dioxide levels be low in the air, so that CO2 in the blood can diffuse outwards into the air in the lungs.  There can be plenty of oxygen in the air, but if CO2 goes much over 0.5% of the air pressure, then flow of CO2 out of the body is slowed.  OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration) has established a permissible Exposure Limit of 5,000 parts per million (ppm) or 0.5% of CO2 in the air, averaged over an 8 hour work day.  At 10,000 ppm (1.0%) CO2 may cause drowsiness.  At 4% to 5% it is immediately dangerous to life or health (gasping for breath, dizziness, confusion, headaches, shortness of breath).  At 80,000 ppm (8% of the air pressure) it will cause unconsciousness and then death.  These responses vary by individual (depending on how healthy they are), and on the length of the exposure.  The treatment for too high CO2 concentration is to immediately move the subject to an area with low CO2, to allow the dangerous CO2 level in the blood to drop.
 ==Settlement atmosphere==