Jet aircraft on Mars - Revision history

Michel Lamontagne: /* Criticism */

2024-09-23T14:07:57Z

Criticism

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:07, 23 September 2024
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	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from [[Photovoltaics \|solar energy]] of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from [[Photovoltaics \|solar energy]] of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

	The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to ~~simply~~ recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, ~~bach~~ into their source material of water and CO<sub>2</sub> than to use the Martian atmosphere as ~~a less than perfectly efficient~~ reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.		The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, back into their source material of water and CO<sub>2</sub> than to use the Martian atmosphere as reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

	==References==		==References==

RichardWSmith: /* Criticism */ formatting

2024-09-22T21:40:14Z

Criticism: formatting

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:40, 22 September 2024
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	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from [[Photovoltaics \|solar energy]] of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from [[Photovoltaics \|solar energy]] of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

	The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and ~~CO2~~ than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.		The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO<sub>2</sub> than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

	==References==		==References==

RichardWSmith: /* Criticism */ Added link

2024-09-22T21:38:50Z

Criticism: Added link

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:38, 22 September 2024
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	====Criticism====		====Criticism====
	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from [[Photovoltaics \|solar energy]] of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

	The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.		The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

RichardWSmith: /* Criticism */ Added link.

2024-09-22T21:37:16Z

Criticism: Added link.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:37, 22 September 2024
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	====Criticism====		====Criticism====
	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of [[Nuclear power \|nuclear reactors]], it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

	The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.		The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

Michel Lamontagne at 14:28, 27 August 2021

2021-08-27T14:28:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:28, 27 August 2021
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	Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars. The jet would follow the principles of Martian aeronautics		Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars. The jet would follow the principles of [[Aeronautics on Mars\|Martian aeronautics.]]

	===Jet using magnesium powder===		===Jet using magnesium powder===

Michel Lamontagne at 14:27, 27 August 2021

2021-08-27T14:27:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:27, 27 August 2021
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	Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars.		Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars. The jet would follow the principles of Martian aeronautics

	=== Jet using magnesium powder ===		===Jet using magnesium powder===
	There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:		There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:

Michel Lamontagne at 14:26, 27 August 2021

2021-08-27T14:26:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 27 August 2021
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	Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars.		Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars.

			=== Jet using magnesium powder ===
	There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:		There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:

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	So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.		So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.

	===Criticism===		====Criticism====
	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

Michel Lamontagne at 21:11, 10 November 2020

2020-11-10T21:11:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:11, 10 November 2020
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			Jet aircraft are a form of [[transportation]] that might be usable on Mars. [[Helicopters]] have already been proven for Mars.

	There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:		There is a report of a jet engine being developed for use on Mars which would burn magnesium powder.<ref>[http://www.wickmanspacecraft.com/marsjet.html Wickman Spacecraft]</ref> The Wickman Spacecraft & Propulsion Co. tried different ways of fluidizing the magnesium powder. Using nitrogen gas to blow the magnesium powder seemed best but their turbine clogged up with carbon stripped from the carbon dioxide atmosphere by the burning magnesium. It seems likely that hydrogen gas would work better to fluidize the magnesium. Equations of the chemical reactions that might occur in such a jet engine are:

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	So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.		So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.

	=== Criticism ===		===Criticism===
	As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

	The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the ~~sabatier~~ reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the ~~martian~~ atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.		The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the Sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the Martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

	==References==		==References==

Michel Lamontagne at 00:29, 12 June 2019

2019-06-12T00:29:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:29, 12 June 2019
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	2Mg + 2H<sub>2</sub> + 2CO<sub>2</sub> ==> 2MgO + 2CH<sub>2</sub>O		2Mg + 2H<sub>2</sub> + 2CO<sub>2</sub> ==> 2MgO + 2CH<sub>2</sub>O

	The products of formaldehyde and methane would not cause carbon build-up, but putting magnesium oxide powder through a turbine seems incompatible with long engine life. The whole problem turbine wear and fouling could be obviated by using a ramjet engine such as was used on the CIM-10 Bomarc Surface-to-air missile<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomarc CIM-10 Bomarc @ Wikipedia]</ref> which flew at Mach 2.6 at 60,000 feet (18 km). A ramjet would need a rocket stage to get it to the speed at which the ramjet can start. Then the aircraft would need to switch to rocket power again to land or land unpowered. Another problem would be the thinness of the Martian atmosphere. The highest altitude air-breathing jet engine on Earth was the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird @ Wikipedia]</ref> which flew at up to 26 kilometers altitude. The pressure of the Martian atmosphere at the surface is about equal to the pressure at 40 kilometers altitude on Earth, six times lower pressure than at the service ceiling of the SR-71.		The products of formaldehyde and methane would not cause carbon build-up, but putting magnesium oxide powder through a turbine seems incompatible with long engine life. The whole problem of turbine wear and fouling could be obviated by using a ramjet engine such as was used on the CIM-10 Bomarc Surface-to-air missile<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomarc CIM-10 Bomarc @ Wikipedia]</ref> which flew at Mach 2.6 at 60,000 feet (18 km). A ramjet would need a rocket stage to get it to the speed at which the ramjet can start. Then the aircraft would need to switch to rocket power again to land or land unpowered. Another problem would be the thinness of the Martian atmosphere. The highest altitude air-breathing jet engine on Earth was the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird @ Wikipedia]</ref> which flew at up to 26 kilometers altitude. The pressure of the Martian atmosphere at the surface is about equal to the pressure at 40 kilometers altitude on Earth, six times lower pressure than at the service ceiling of the SR-71.

	So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.		So there is a possibility of an atmosphere-breathing ramjet-powered aircraft on Mars, but there are problems that might prevent it.

	== References ==		=== Criticism ===
	<references/>		As the propellant must be refined using energy taken from solar energy of nuclear reactors, it can be said that all propulsion systems on Mars are basically nuclear or solar.

			The propellant producing reactions used on Mars, probably electrolysis of water, possibly the sabatier reaction, produce large amounts of oxygen. It seems more practical to simply recombine the oxygen and hydrogen, or oxygen and methane, bach into their source material of water and CO2 than to use the martian atmosphere as a less than perfectly efficient reaction mass. Carrying the oxygen is a mass penalty, but hardly worse than carrying large amounts of magnesium. Nitrogen would probably be in demand on Mars as a necessary element for food production and atmospheric composition.

			==References==
			<references />

	[[Category:Exploration Concepts]]		[[Category:Exploration Concepts]]

Jburk at 00:02, 18 December 2018

2018-12-18T00:02:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:02, 18 December 2018
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	<references/>		<references/>

	[[Category:~~Transportation~~]]		[[Category:Exploration Concepts]]