https://marspedia.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Ioneill&feedformat=atomMarspedia - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T15:22:43ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.34.2https://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Links_and_Resources&diff=5191Links and Resources2010-07-08T07:20:54Z<p>Ioneill: /* Blogs */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Main]]<br />
== Marspedia's Sister Sites ==<br />
* [[Exodictionary]].org [http://www.exodictionary.org/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.exodictionary.org]<br />
<br />
* [[Lunarpedia]].org [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.lunarpedia.org]<br />
<br />
* [[Scientifiction]].org [http://www.scientifiction.org/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.scientifiction.org]<br />
<br />
* [[Spacepedia]].info [http://www.spacepedia.info/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.spacepedia.info]<br />
<br />
==Audio Streams==<br />
* [[The Space Show]] [http://www.thespaceshow.com/ http://www.thespaceshow.com/ ]<br />
<br />
==Blogs==<br />
There are numerous blogs on space related topics. Please add any other blogs you recommend. <br />
<br />
* [[Masten Space Systems]] [http://masten-space.com/blog/ Blog with current updates]<br />
<br />
* [[Rocketforge]] [http://rocketforge.org/ http://rocketforge.org/]<br />
<br />
* [[Transterrestrial Musings]] [http://transterrestrial.com/ http://transterrestrial.com/]<br />
<br />
* [[Universe Today]] [http://www.universetoday.com/ http://www.universetoday.com/]<br />
<br />
* [[Skymania News and Guide - includes extensive section on Mars]] [http://skymania.com/wp/ http://skymania.com/wp/]<br />
<br />
==Communities==<br />
* [[lunarp:ASI MOO|ASI MOO]] article on Lunarpedia.org - Artemis Society Meetings Server - Open to the Public<BR/><br />
* [[Mars MOO]]<BR/><br />
* [[NSS MOO]]<BR/><br />
* [[lunarp:Second Life Space Community|Second Life Space Community]] article on Lunarpedia.org<BR/><br />
* [[lunarp:Space Alumni|Space Alumni]] article on Lunarpedia.org - Fully featured public site, with member networking, discussion fora, and online chat<BR/><br />
<br />
==Gravity Page==<br />
* [http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/gravity0.htm Gravity Page] - Dr J R Stockton<br />
<br />
==The Mars Simulation Project==<br />
The Mars Simulation Project is a free software Java project to create a simulation of future human settlement of Mars.<br />
* [http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/ http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/]<br />
<br />
==MIT Space Logistics Project==<br />
'''Interplanetary Supply Chain Management and Logistics Architecture.'''<br />
<br />
* [http://spacelogistics.mit.edu/ MIT Space Logistics Project]<br><br />
* [http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/spacenet.html Engineers create SpaceNet--the supply chain]<br />
<br />
==Other Links==<br />
* [http://ehso.com/databases.htm US Government Databases]<br />
<br />
==Some more useful links:==<br />
* [http://www.star-tech-inc.com/spaceelevator.html Space Elevators and other Advanced Concepts] - Jerome Pearson<br />
<br />
==The <s>Nine</s>8 Planets==<br />
* [http://www.nineplanets.org The <s>Nine</s>8 Planets] - Bill Arnett</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=4497User talk:Ioneill2009-03-10T07:02:03Z<p>Ioneill: /* Marspedia needs help */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll be interested to see the code for sure, as for playing with it, i think I'll leave it to the pros for now ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Alas, what I have is pretty crude and unprofessional (it's not exactly a user-targeted applet -- just enough work and tinkering to get the job done). Look [[Marspedia:BWABOM LMEES|here]] and cringe. It's also not at all dynamic and isn't an extension. It requires admin access, a list of all the IPs and usernames, and a bunch of clicking... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi James, this looks like a piece of software for creation of links to show up in your browser. When you click on the links it performs some blocking commands to the addressed wikis. Am I understanding this correctly? Instead, what I have in mind is some piece of software plugin, running on the Marspedia server, not on your client PC. This plugin should prevent the malicious edits, before they are saved to the database. Are you (or Ian) in contact with a MediaWiki developer? If not, do you mind if I contact [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brion_Vibber Brion Vibber] on this? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, thanks for blocking [[User:202.84.17.42]], but I am in doubt about the sustainability. Sooner or later the bot will douplicate itself to other computers and will strike again with a different IP address. What do you think about my proposal (see above)? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, Sure, I can't see a problem with your proposal, but you'd have to clear it with one of the guys at the top and get their view. I do admit to being a little inexperienced to be playing with software for catching bots, and I'm not certain about what you'd need if you were to start developing codes on a wiki like Marspedia. Try dropping [[User:Strangelv|James]] a message to find out more about his progress with the wiki - I think both James and Mike are developing something as we speak, they might welcome some input. My immediate concern at the moment is to try to get some more contributors to Marspedia - will be nice to get a group of active people to submit content, like Lunarpedia. Don't think there are many people out there supporting Mars settlement! Shame really. Loving your new content by the way. The open questions are a great idea as it brings people into the discussion. All we need now are the people! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 11:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes, that is my concern too, [[User talk:Rfc#General|just as you probably read]]. As far as I know the younger generation is not that much interested in space travel, whereas the Star Trek generation is engaged with a hundred terrestrial problems in their families and occupation. Okay, I will let you know what I can do after contacting one of the developers. Cheers! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::After asking Brion on Wikipedia I've got some information about how to setup an extension for combating spam: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam], with captcha: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit]. That's a lot to read and dig into. I will try to find out, what we can do with it. --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi, I have done some coding. Please have a look at [[Marspedia:Captcha]]. If you give it a try: Please keep the original files in a safe place and restore them if something goes wrong. I have not tested it. The additional code should pop up a captcha if the first character of the text is changed. This is only a simple check. Once it is working, we will enhance it step by step. Good luck! --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hey Rfc. I've managed to spend some time looking at the code and it's looking good. From what I understand, the thinking behind this should work really well - I hope it will be really effective against the botnets. When I free up a bit more time over the coming weeks I hope to learn a bit more about captchas, perhaps I'll be able to help out should the need surface. But for now, I'll be watching in anticipation to see how successful this method it. Great stuff! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 03:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi Ian, this code needs to be installed in the wikimedia software to take effect. I have no access to the PHP files. Do you have? Can you arrange to get it installed? --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't have server access unfortunately. The best person to message is [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Strangelv James] to find out if he can do it. If you have any probs I'll send him an email to find out what you have to do to get this installed. I'm sure the Lunarpedia peeps will be very interested too :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::My technical difficulties with the notebook I have the passwords on remain unsolved (unless the HD is toast, which is not the desired solution). Dana Carson and Mike Delaney may be better candidates, although Mike knows a lot more about what to do and is a lot harder to catch. You can try to intercept them in [http://moo.asi.org ASI MOO]. While I definitely need to be able to do this, I lack experience with doing this sort of thing as well as passwords, plus I'm largely indisposed lately, as you may have noticed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 17:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== marspedia cards ==<br />
<br />
recently made some marspedia business cards as the reverse side of a Lunarpedia card I will be taking to JSC in april. shoot me an email if you want a copy. jarogers2001_at_aim.com - [[User:Jarogers2001|Jarogers2001]] 04:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== deletion ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, there are some unresolved items listed in the [[deletion]] page. Since I do not have the permission, can you please rid the objects in question off Marspedia? Thanks... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 21:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Marspedia needs help ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I have a growing feeling of something has gone wrong. The public interest in Marspedia is nearly absolute zero. There is but one active writer. The number of visitors is far below our expectations. No response on [[Talk:Crucial_issues|direct questions towards members of the Mars Society]]. I doubt this is all just because of the world wide recession. Any idea? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 20:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc! Wow, it's been so long, I've forgotten how to wiki!! I just sent you an email with some details, but I'm hoping to be back on board the Marspedia efforts soon. Got several projects on the go at the moment, but I can assure you, Marspedia has not been forgotten! See you soon. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 07:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Rfc&diff=3201User talk:Rfc2008-06-04T00:55:51Z<p>Ioneill: /* Messages */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Messages==<br />
<br />
Welcome to Marspedia! I look forward to seeing more of you in the future. You seem familiar with wikis but if you need any help, look at http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#New_Users_Start_Here.21 or contact one of the admins. Enjoy! [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Ian, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I have started to write articles, and I should like to know your opinion. Is this the kind of article this project wants, or is it too fantastic, all-too much pointed to a speculative future? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Rfc (do you have a first name, or are you staying anonymous?), it's good to see you contributing in such a positive way. The content you have provided so far is great - any speculative future is fine in my books. Also, you can include your ''personal opinion'' (so long as you clearly state "<nowiki>{{PersPosArticle}} ~~~</nowiki>" which prints "{{PersPosArticle}} [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]]") - personal opinions are fine. Besides, it may create some good discussion. For the main part, article creation is positive step regardless of opinion, speculation or ideas as long as you are fine with a good debate! Anyhow, you seem to have experience with wikis and the content is looking good, so keep it up :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 19:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Site development===<br />
Hi, I'm just messaging the active contributers to Marspedia to get their views on the redesign of the front page. I've tried to highlight the important links and made the page more accessible to newcomers. Also I've created a Wikipedia-style "featured articles" section. I'd be really interested to hear your views on this. It's going to take a lot more work, but this is a good start. Primarily I want to extract the important info and cut down on the excessive text that may cause confusion (as suggested by a couple of you). However, I haven't removed anything as yet, simply jigged it around a bit. I'll look forward to getting your input :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:You did a great job, Ian! It really looks better. How about [[Main Page|my changes]]? It is just a proposal, so if you see a problem, please redo it. I am not entirely sure about the place for the "Notice" section. Is it required to stay on top of the page? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::Hi Rfc! Thank you, glad you like the redesign :-) I really like your changes too, but for now the copyright notice needs to stay where it is - although I'm getting confirmation from the developers. We are able to change certain things on the front page, but I'm worried about the copyright notice. I love the fact you've moved the "mission statement", that will stay where it is, but for now the copyright will have to stay unmoved. Nice work though! I will let you know when I get a reply to my email about further changes and we can take it from there. Also, suggestions for the slogan after "Welcome to Marspedia!" will be gratefully received, not sure if "''The collaborative resource for building a colony on the Red Planet.''" reads that well... Keep up the superb work! I've been reading your new articles and they are superb, I look forward to seeing more! Did you take a major in Mars settlement design?? Certainly looks like it ;-) Cheers, -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Does a "major in Mars settlement design" really exist? No, I am not, but I am used to design complex telecommunication systems, including some system engineering. I would love to do "Mars settlement design" fulltime, but I guess this is not good for earning the money I need for living (on Earth for the time beeing;-). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I really wish it did exist! I think the Mars Foundation once had a volunteer who took an engineering course in settlement design, but I dont think he's with us any more. There are ways to make a little cash from Mars settlement concepts, but it's mainly educational. Have a look at our site: [http://www.marshome.org/grants.php http://www.marshome.org/grants.php] to see what can be awarded. Really only useful for students at the moment, but we are hoping to develop funding eventually. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===List of Lists===<br />
The List of Lists exists solely for site development. I've hopefully answered some of your questions about it and copied the discussion over to the talk page for List of Lists. Ask more questions and propose things (or leap into action for that matter), just note that I may not respond for quite a few hours. It's daybreak here and I've been up since yesterday... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for explaining. Sweet dreams ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Blocking repeated bot offenders===<br />
Hey Rfc. Thanks for the idea to block the MER category and Exobiology page - only registered users can edit them now. Between us we probably reverted a hundred edits! At least these pages should be quiet for a month (I put a 1 month limit on the block to see if that is enough).<br />
<br />
Sorry I've been a little quiet of late, my laptop crashed last week and it looks like it's dead now, so i'm limited to using the family backup PC for now until I get a new machine. Any problems, I always have access to my email and will be checking Marspedia daily. <br />
<br />
Hope you are well and having a nice Christmas in Germany :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Featured Article===<br />
Hi Rfc. Thanks for the info on the MarsDrive article, will get to the bottom of who posted it :-)<br />
<br />
I have changed the featured article on the front page to the [[Greenhouse]] article you added a lot of new concepts to. Have a look. I used one of your diagrams as I thought it was most descriptive :-) Enjoy!<br />
<br />
Take care and catch you soon [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, it sprang into my eye, and I feel it's a great honor:-) Besides, "funerals and burials" seems to be double. Perhaps, ''burial'' is the better word, for it is closer to the act carried out in the greenhouse. Hope you had a great season, as well! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Rfc! Long time no see! I've been away for so long, I was forgetting how to wiki... looks like things have been moderately quiet over here, but I thought I'd change the "featured article" on the front page. Now I'm back, I think it's high time to re-invigorate this project, especially with Phoenix landing on Mars last week. Will hopefully see you soon! Hope you are well :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===General===<br />
Hi Rfc. Good news, I now have a new laptop up and running so I hope to be a bit more active on Marspedia! I have some catching up to do, some superb articles have appeared, I'd better get reading. Hope all is good with you. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Ian, congratulations! Laptops are pretty useful, but I don't like their keyboard layout. A bunch of new ''open issues'' have appeared too. It's funny to see how little we know, once we go a little deeper into realization aspects. We could need the help of some specialists (e.g. geologists, chemists, biologists, etc.). And my impression is, the global number of people interested in Martian settlements is less than a hundred, or so. Very few of them seem to have even recognized the emerging of the Marspedia project.<br />
:I am looking forward to January 30th, when the asteroid ''2007 WD5'' crosses the Martian orbital trajectory. There is a tiny chance to hit Phobos ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 15:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==captcha code==<br />
<br />
Dear RFC, thanks for the captcha code on lunarpedia. Alas I do not have php access, so cannot do anything with it. Only MikeD has php access. Thanks. [[User:Cfrjlr|Charles F. Radley]] 03:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Charles, I have asked [[user:Ioneill|Ioneill]] to install the PHP code, for he is a Bureaucrat too. --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::You need to be way more than a Bureaucrat to install or upgrade extensions. And if I recall correctly, [[user:Ioneill|Ioneill]] is way more than a Bureaucrat, he can correct me if I'm wrong or get reminders of usernames and passwords if I'm right. <br />
::However, I will be conducting some long overdue maintenance this weekend.<br />
::- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 06:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Hi James, can you please help with [[Marsp:User_talk:Ioneill#gibberish from bot net|this]]? --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, there are new bot attacks in both Lunarpedia and Marspedia, and I wonder whether it is less work to install the [[Marsp:Marspedia:Captcha|new captcha trigger]] or to revert the bot's edits over and over. As fas as I understand you are the only person keeping the passwords for php access. It should take only a few minutes to insert the <span style="background-color:#88FF88"> green parts</span>:<br />
# Logon to the machine where the wikimedia software is running.<br />
# Find the files ConfirmEdit.php, ConfirmEdit.i18n.php, ConfirmEdit_body.php.<br />
# Be sure the contents of the files match.<br />
# Create a backup copy of the files.<br />
# Insert the green parts using vi or prepare the files on your PC and ftp them.<br />
# Check the effect. If you try to change the first letter in a page a captcha should pop up on clicking the "save page" button.<br />
That should be all. You can count on my assistance, if needed. Cheers! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
:Unfortunately, I ''don't'' have them. They're all in a text file on a hard drive that may be complete toast that can only run on a specific notebook of mine that may also be complete toast. {{lunarp|User:Dcarson|Dana Carson}} and {{lunarp|User:Mdelaney|Mike Delaney}} both have these passwords last I checked, however. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 10:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Foundation_of_an_Autonomous_Colony&diff=3200Foundation of an Autonomous Colony2008-06-04T00:51:54Z<p>Ioneill: </p>
<hr />
<div>The '''Foundation of an Autonomous Colony''' on another cosmic body is one of the most challenging tasks for humanity. Though it requires enormous effort, the goal to expand the influence of mankind throughout the [[Solar system]] is worthwhile. This [[motivation]] has several aspects. This page covers general issues of an autonomous colony on [[Mars]]. <br />
<br />
What is an autonomous colony? The main attribute is [[independence from Earth]]. Once the colony is set up, it provides a [[habitat]] for settlers on the long run, hopefully forever. <br />
The second attribute is a planned and indefinitely stable colony that can thrive from [[local resources]]. Unlike a [[mission with planned death]] the settlers in an autonomous colony have a future for themselves and for their Mars-born [[children]]. <br />
<br />
==Technological issues==<br />
<br />
[[Bringing down Phobos]] before a [[settlement]] is built may help to make [[Mars]] safe for the long term. <br />
<br />
The [[Transport from Earth to Mars|transport of colonists from Earth to Mars]] is a very complicated part of the plan. There are many threats inherent to space travel: [[Solar Radiation|Solar]] & [[Cosmic Radiation|Cosmic]] Radiation, [[Meteorites]], Physical & Mental Illness, etc. Plans will need to be made to deal with every possible problem. <br />
<br />
Since people can not live in the natural [[environmental conditions|environment]] a basic artificial [[habitat]] with [[house]]s, supplies and equipment for a long term stay would be deposited on Mars' surface. The [[equipment for autonomous growth|equipment must be technologically sufficient]] to allow the colonists to grow their own [[food]], build new houses, etc. <br />
<br />
There are many uncertainties about the impact of the Martian environment. The equipment would be tested on [[Earth]] thoroughly, but the influence of the Martian environment cannot be understood completely on Earth. The safest way is an [[unmanned setup of a whole settlement]] by an automated and remote controlled machinery. <br />
<br />
[[Energy]] is the most critical resource. It is needed for lighting and heating of [[greenhouse]]s, for [[metallurgy]] and production of machines. [[The critical path]] is the generation of enough energy for the production of spare parts for the energy generating systems and greenhouses. In other words: If the energy generating systems and greenhouses can not be maintained endlessly with the amount of energy they produce, an autonomous colony is not feasible.<br />
<br />
==Organizational Issues== <br />
<br />
The preparation cost for a mission like this is tremendous. A [[financial effort estimation]] helps to get an overview. <br />
<br />
Within a small group of colonists, a daily council of all members may be sufficient to address the needs of governance, much in the tradition of the New England town hall meetings. In a growing community some kind of representative [[democracy]] may become necessary. <br />
<br />
As the number of members in a martian [[population]] grows, so will the number of deaths. It will become necessary to conduct [[funeral]]s. <br />
<br />
==Medical Issues== <br />
<br />
===Quarantine=== <br />
Before heading for Mars any crew is [[quarantine|quarantined]] to ensure they do not suffer from infectious diseases. As a result, the martian colony should be more or less free from pathogenic [[microbes|germs]], which saves medical effort. However, for children born on Mars an even more effective [[vaccination|vaccination program]] will be necessary to stimulate the development of Mars-born [[immune system]]s. <br />
<br />
===Inbreeding=== <br />
The size of the human population must not be too small due to the risk of [[inbreeding depression]]. <br />
<br />
===Cancer=== <br />
Increased exposure to [[radiation]] may increase the incidence of cancer. Colonists will need shielding from radiation during [[transport from Earth to Mars]] and on Mars' surface, due to the thin [[atmosphere]] and lack of a planetary [[magnetosphere]]. <br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}} <br />
<br />
{{Featured_red_ring}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Concepts]] <br />
[[Category:Manned Missions]] <br />
[[Category:Settlements]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Featured_articles&diff=3199Featured articles2008-06-04T00:50:53Z<p>Ioneill: /* Previously Featured Articles */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''A featured article ring (or Mars "eclipse") [[Image:red_ring.png]] is awarded to articles that demonstrate exceptional clarity, detail or individuality. Articles in Marspedia can be [[Talk:Featured_articles|nominated by anyone]] and then reviewed by Marspedia's administrative staff. Currently, there are no time restraints on the featured article, and just because the article has been nominated ''does not mean it will be featured''! In time, this program will extend to "Featured Contributors" and "Featured Categories". See the [[Main_Page|front page]] for the current featured article.''' <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Currently Featured Article== <br />
{{Featured_article}} <br />
{{Featured_red_ring}} <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Previously Featured Articles== <br />
* June 4, 2008: [[Foundation of an Autonomous Colony]]<br />
* January 2, 2008: [[Greenhouse]].<br />
* November 21, 2007: [[Mars Global Surveyor]]. <br />
<br />
[[category:Main Page Maintenance]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Template:Featured_Article&diff=3198Template:Featured Article2008-06-04T00:49:44Z<p>Ioneill: /* leftFeatured article: Greenhouse */</p>
<hr />
<div>===[[Image:red_ring.png|15px|left]]Featured article: [[Foundation of an Autonomous Colony]]===<br />
[[Image:Hillside concept.jpg|160px|left]]<br />
What is an autonomous colony? The main attribute is [[independence from Earth]]. Once the colony is set up, it provides a [[habitat]] for settlers on the long run, hopefully forever. <br />
The second attribute is a planned and indefinitely stable colony that can thrive from [[local resources]]. Unlike a [[mission with planned death]] the settlers in an autonomous colony have a future for themselves and for their Mars-born [[children]]. '''([[Foundation of an Autonomous Colony|read more]])'''<br />
<div style="text-align:right"><br />
<small><strong>[[Featured articles|See all featured articles]]</strong> | [[Talk:Featured_articles|Nominate!]]</small><br />
</div><noinclude><br />
[[category:templates]][[category:Main Page Maintenance]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Featured_articles&diff=3197Talk:Featured articles2008-06-04T00:45:28Z<p>Ioneill: /* Featured Article Nominations */</p>
<hr />
<div>=Featured Article Nominations=<br />
Please nominate articles that are detailed and unique enough to be featured on the [[Main_Page|front page of Marspedia]]. Once we get started and begin to create larger articles, a more complex vetting criteria can be applied, but for now, feel free to give your suggestions below.<br />
<br />
'''Please leave the link to your nomination and sign your name afterwards for consideration'''<br />
<br />
* [[Foundation of an Autonomous Colony]] -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
* <del>[[Greenhouse]] -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 15:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)</del><br />
* <del>[[Mars Global Surveyor]] (used for beta testing of Featured Article section) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)</del><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Info==<br />
This template will be undergoing development for the "Featured Article" section on the front page of Marspedia. As it will be used on the front page, '''the template will be locked''' to avoid malicious spambots and user graffiti our beloved [[Main_Page|front page]] :-). If you have suggestions for the development of this template, please leave a message here. A featured article list [[Featured articles|has it's own page]] and nominations can be made above.<br />
<br />
:--[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 02:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Help&diff=3014Marspedia:Help2008-02-07T06:06:39Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 200.68.73.193 (Talk); changed back to last version by Rfc</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Laertes&diff=3000User talk:Laertes2008-02-03T06:53:02Z<p>Ioneill: welcome</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Laertes! Welcome to Marspedia! My name is Ian O'Neill, one of the admins here and I'm available most of the time if you need any assistance. We're hoping for a big 2008 for lots of new additions to the Marspedia wiki, so it's great to have you on board. Hopefully see you soon -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 06:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2966User talk:Ioneill2008-01-26T12:45:12Z<p>Ioneill: /* gibberish from bot net */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll be interested to see the code for sure, as for playing with it, i think I'll leave it to the pros for now ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Alas, what I have is pretty crude and unprofessional (it's not exactly a user-targeted applet -- just enough work and tinkering to get the job done). Look [[Marspedia:BWABOM LMEES|here]] and cringe. It's also not at all dynamic and isn't an extension. It requires admin access, a list of all the IPs and usernames, and a bunch of clicking... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi James, this looks like a piece of software for creation of links to show up in your browser. When you click on the links it performs some blocking commands to the addressed wikis. Am I understanding this correctly? Instead, what I have in mind is some piece of software plugin, running on the Marspedia server, not on your client PC. This plugin should prevent the malicious edits, before they are saved to the database. Are you (or Ian) in contact with a MediaWiki developer? If not, do you mind if I contact [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brion_Vibber Brion Vibber] on this? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, thanks for blocking [[User:202.84.17.42]], but I am in doubt about the sustainability. Sooner or later the bot will douplicate itself to other computers and will strike again with a different IP address. What do you think about my proposal (see above)? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, Sure, I can't see a problem with your proposal, but you'd have to clear it with one of the guys at the top and get their view. I do admit to being a little inexperienced to be playing with software for catching bots, and I'm not certain about what you'd need if you were to start developing codes on a wiki like Marspedia. Try dropping [[User:Strangelv|James]] a message to find out more about his progress with the wiki - I think both James and Mike are developing something as we speak, they might welcome some input. My immediate concern at the moment is to try to get some more contributors to Marspedia - will be nice to get a group of active people to submit content, like Lunarpedia. Don't think there are many people out there supporting Mars settlement! Shame really. Loving your new content by the way. The open questions are a great idea as it brings people into the discussion. All we need now are the people! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 11:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes, that is my concern too, [[User talk:Rfc#General|just as you probably read]]. As far as I know the younger generation is not that much interested in space travel, whereas the Star Trek generation is engaged with a hundred terrestrial problems in their families and occupation. Okay, I will let you know what I can do after contacting one of the developers. Cheers! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::After asking Brion on Wikipedia I've got some information about how to setup an extension for combating spam: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam], with captcha: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit]. That's a lot to read and dig into. I will try to find out, what we can do with it. --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi, I have done some coding. Please have a look at [[Marspedia:Captcha]]. If you give it a try: Please keep the original files in a safe place and restore them if something goes wrong. I have not tested it. The additional code should pop up a captcha if the first character of the text is changed. This is only a simple check. Once it is working, we will enhance it step by step. Good luck! --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hey Rfc. I've managed to spend some time looking at the code and it's looking good. From what I understand, the thinking behind this should work really well - I hope it will be really effective against the botnets. When I free up a bit more time over the coming weeks I hope to learn a bit more about captchas, perhaps I'll be able to help out should the need surface. But for now, I'll be watching in anticipation to see how successful this method it. Great stuff! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 03:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi Ian, this code needs to be installed in the wikimedia software to take effect. I have no access to the PHP files. Do you have? Can you arrange to get it installed? --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't have server access unfortunately. The best person to message is [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Strangelv James] to find out if he can do it. If you have any probs I'll send him an email to find out what you have to do to get this installed. I'm sure the Lunarpedia peeps will be very interested too :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2963User talk:Ioneill2008-01-26T03:55:36Z<p>Ioneill: /* gibberish from bot net */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll be interested to see the code for sure, as for playing with it, i think I'll leave it to the pros for now ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Alas, what I have is pretty crude and unprofessional (it's not exactly a user-targeted applet -- just enough work and tinkering to get the job done). Look [[Marspedia:BWABOM LMEES|here]] and cringe. It's also not at all dynamic and isn't an extension. It requires admin access, a list of all the IPs and usernames, and a bunch of clicking... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi James, this looks like a piece of software for creation of links to show up in your browser. When you click on the links it performs some blocking commands to the addressed wikis. Am I understanding this correctly? Instead, what I have in mind is some piece of software plugin, running on the Marspedia server, not on your client PC. This plugin should prevent the malicious edits, before they are saved to the database. Are you (or Ian) in contact with a MediaWiki developer? If not, do you mind if I contact [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brion_Vibber Brion Vibber] on this? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, thanks for blocking [[User:202.84.17.42]], but I am in doubt about the sustainability. Sooner or later the bot will douplicate itself to other computers and will strike again with a different IP address. What do you think about my proposal (see above)? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, Sure, I can't see a problem with your proposal, but you'd have to clear it with one of the guys at the top and get their view. I do admit to being a little inexperienced to be playing with software for catching bots, and I'm not certain about what you'd need if you were to start developing codes on a wiki like Marspedia. Try dropping [[User:Strangelv|James]] a message to find out more about his progress with the wiki - I think both James and Mike are developing something as we speak, they might welcome some input. My immediate concern at the moment is to try to get some more contributors to Marspedia - will be nice to get a group of active people to submit content, like Lunarpedia. Don't think there are many people out there supporting Mars settlement! Shame really. Loving your new content by the way. The open questions are a great idea as it brings people into the discussion. All we need now are the people! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 11:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes, that is my concern too, [[User talk:Rfc#General|just as you probably read]]. As far as I know the younger generation is not that much interested in space travel, whereas the Star Trek generation is engaged with a hundred terrestrial problems in their families and occupation. Okay, I will let you know what I can do after contacting one of the developers. Cheers! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::After asking Brion on Wikipedia I've got some information about how to setup an extension for combating spam: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam], with captcha: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit]. That's a lot to read and dig into. I will try to find out, what we can do with it. --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi, I have done some coding. Please have a look at [[Marspedia:Captcha]]. If you give it a try: Please keep the original files in a safe place and restore them if something goes wrong. I have not tested it. The additional code should pop up a captcha if the first character of the text is changed. This is only a simple check. Once it is working, we will enhance it step by step. Good luck! --[[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Hey Rfc. I've managed to spend some time looking at the code and it's looking good. From what I understand, the thinking behind this should work really well - I hope it will be really effective against the botnets. When I free up a bit more time over the coming weeks I hope to learn a bit more about captchas, perhaps I'll be able to help out should the need surface. But for now, I'll be watching in anticipation to see how successful this method it. Great stuff! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 03:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2942User talk:Ioneill2008-01-17T11:45:45Z<p>Ioneill: /* gibberish from bot net */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll be interested to see the code for sure, as for playing with it, i think I'll leave it to the pros for now ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Alas, what I have is pretty crude and unprofessional (it's not exactly a user-targeted applet -- just enough work and tinkering to get the job done). Look [[Marspedia:BWABOM LMEES|here]] and cringe. It's also not at all dynamic and isn't an extension. It requires admin access, a list of all the IPs and usernames, and a bunch of clicking... -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 11:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi James, this looks like a piece of software for creation of links to show up in your browser. When you click on the links it performs some blocking commands to the addressed wikis. Am I understanding this correctly? Instead, what I have in mind is some piece of software plugin, running on the Marspedia server, not on your client PC. This plugin should prevent the malicious edits, before they are saved to the database. Are you (or Ian) in contact with a MediaWiki developer? If not, do you mind if I contact [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brion_Vibber Brion Vibber] on this? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 12:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, thanks for blocking [[User:202.84.17.42]], but I am in doubt about the sustainability. Sooner or later the bot will douplicate itself to other computers and will strike again with a different IP address. What do you think about my proposal (see above)? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, Sure, I can't see a problem with your proposal, but you'd have to clear it with one of the guys at the top and get their view. I do admit to being a little inexperienced to be playing with software for catching bots, and I'm not certain about what you'd need if you were to start developing codes on a wiki like Marspedia. Try dropping [[User:Strangelv|James]] a message to find out more about his progress with the wiki - I think both James and Mike are developing something as we speak, they might welcome some input. My immediate concern at the moment is to try to get some more contributors to Marspedia - will be nice to get a group of active people to submit content, like Lunarpedia. Don't think there are many people out there supporting Mars settlement! Shame really. Loving your new content by the way. The open questions are a great idea as it brings people into the discussion. All we need now are the people! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 11:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Rfc&diff=2915User talk:Rfc2008-01-15T12:38:26Z<p>Ioneill: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Messages==<br />
<br />
Welcome to Marspedia! I look forward to seeing more of you in the future. You seem familiar with wikis but if you need any help, look at http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#New_Users_Start_Here.21 or contact one of the admins. Enjoy! [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Ian, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I have started to write articles, and I should like to know your opinion. Is this the kind of article this project wants, or is it too fantastic, all-too much pointed to a speculative future? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Rfc (do you have a first name, or are you staying anonymous?), it's good to see you contributing in such a positive way. The content you have provided so far is great - any speculative future is fine in my books. Also, you can include your ''personal opinion'' (so long as you clearly state "<nowiki>{{PersPosArticle}} ~~~</nowiki>" which prints "{{PersPosArticle}} [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]]") - personal opinions are fine. Besides, it may create some good discussion. For the main part, article creation is positive step regardless of opinion, speculation or ideas as long as you are fine with a good debate! Anyhow, you seem to have experience with wikis and the content is looking good, so keep it up :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 19:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Site development===<br />
Hi, I'm just messaging the active contributers to Marspedia to get their views on the redesign of the front page. I've tried to highlight the important links and made the page more accessible to newcomers. Also I've created a Wikipedia-style "featured articles" section. I'd be really interested to hear your views on this. It's going to take a lot more work, but this is a good start. Primarily I want to extract the important info and cut down on the excessive text that may cause confusion (as suggested by a couple of you). However, I haven't removed anything as yet, simply jigged it around a bit. I'll look forward to getting your input :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:You did a great job, Ian! It really looks better. How about [[Main Page|my changes]]? It is just a proposal, so if you see a problem, please redo it. I am not entirely sure about the place for the "Notice" section. Is it required to stay on top of the page? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::Hi Rfc! Thank you, glad you like the redesign :-) I really like your changes too, but for now the copyright notice needs to stay where it is - although I'm getting confirmation from the developers. We are able to change certain things on the front page, but I'm worried about the copyright notice. I love the fact you've moved the "mission statement", that will stay where it is, but for now the copyright will have to stay unmoved. Nice work though! I will let you know when I get a reply to my email about further changes and we can take it from there. Also, suggestions for the slogan after "Welcome to Marspedia!" will be gratefully received, not sure if "''The collaborative resource for building a colony on the Red Planet.''" reads that well... Keep up the superb work! I've been reading your new articles and they are superb, I look forward to seeing more! Did you take a major in Mars settlement design?? Certainly looks like it ;-) Cheers, -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Does a "major in Mars settlement design" really exist? No, I am not, but I am used to design complex telecommunication systems, including some system engineering. I would love to do "Mars settlement design" fulltime, but I guess this is not good for earning the money I need for living (on Earth for the time beeing;-). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I really wish it did exist! I think the Mars Foundation once had a volunteer who took an engineering course in settlement design, but I dont think he's with us any more. There are ways to make a little cash from Mars settlement concepts, but it's mainly educational. Have a look at our site: [http://www.marshome.org/grants.php http://www.marshome.org/grants.php] to see what can be awarded. Really only useful for students at the moment, but we are hoping to develop funding eventually. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===List of Lists===<br />
The List of Lists exists solely for site development. I've hopefully answered some of your questions about it and copied the discussion over to the talk page for List of Lists. Ask more questions and propose things (or leap into action for that matter), just note that I may not respond for quite a few hours. It's daybreak here and I've been up since yesterday... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for explaining. Sweet dreams ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Blocking repeated bot offenders===<br />
Hey Rfc. Thanks for the idea to block the MER category and Exobiology page - only registered users can edit them now. Between us we probably reverted a hundred edits! At least these pages should be quiet for a month (I put a 1 month limit on the block to see if that is enough).<br />
<br />
Sorry I've been a little quiet of late, my laptop crashed last week and it looks like it's dead now, so i'm limited to using the family backup PC for now until I get a new machine. Any problems, I always have access to my email and will be checking Marspedia daily. <br />
<br />
Hope you are well and having a nice Christmas in Germany :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Featured Article===<br />
Hi Rfc. Thanks for the info on the MarsDrive article, will get to the bottom of who posted it :-)<br />
<br />
I have changed the featured article on the front page to the [[Greenhouse]] article you added a lot of new concepts to. Have a look. I used one of your diagrams as I thought it was most descriptive :-) Enjoy!<br />
<br />
Take care and catch you soon [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, it sprang into my eye, and I feel it's a great honor:-) Besides, "funerals and burials" seems to be double. Perhaps, ''burial'' is the better word, for it is closer to the act carried out in the greenhouse. Hope you had a great season, as well! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===General===<br />
Hi Rfc. Good news, I now have a new laptop up and running so I hope to be a bit more active on Marspedia! I have some catching up to do, some superb articles have appeared, I'd better get reading. Hope all is good with you. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2892User talk:Ioneill2008-01-09T18:34:03Z<p>Ioneill: /* gibberish from bot net */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll be interested to see the code for sure, as for playing with it, i think I'll leave it to the pros for now ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2891User talk:Ioneill2008-01-09T18:25:28Z<p>Ioneill: /* plagiarism? */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The URL is "http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html". I had a great party with my wife and friends, with firework etc., and now my alcohol level is back to normal (=0). In the evenings, when the weather is clear, Mars is brightly gleaming in the evening sky ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you believe there's ''any'' measurable risk that it might be something that isn't released by its author to the public domain, please slap a {<B></B>{PD Violation}<B></B>} tag across the top of it ''immediately,'' lest someone takes us up in good faith on it being public domain and uses it in ways inappropriate to the actual permissions granted (if any) by the author. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Got it, will do just that ;-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== gibberish from bot net ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, it looks like the problem can not be solved by only blocking certain IP addresses. The bot net may be growing, and we can not block the whole internet eventually. I was thinking of different means to solve the problem. First we can write a bot that does exactly what you and I are doing, i.e. reverting and blocking. (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henna/VF) This may help us to do it more efficiently, but still the history is messed. A better solution may be some additional software on the Marspedia server, checking all input texts for pattern of gibberish and popping up a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha captcha] in case of pattern matching. Yet, I do not know whether or not it is possible to add such a piece of software. If you see a chance then I probably can help to do some programming. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, I have found someone (Brion Vibber) who should know quite a bit about captchas and mediawiki software plugins. He is one of the Wikipedia software developers. The hint I have found is on http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jbossws-commits/2007-June/002502.html. May be you are already in contact with him, so I do not want to double bother him. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lunarpedia and Marspedia have CAPTCHAs set up: this is why they're not completely overrun like the other three wikis. They're set up to allow unharassed all anonymous posts that don't include a URL, thus the room for this particular miscreant to go the extra klick to successfully be obnoxious for nothing more than the sake of obnoxiousness. If you ask Mike Delaney he may be able to remember how to adjust it to be more inconvenient for people who are anonymously contributing actual content and corrections.<br />
<br />
:I should probably post the python script I've been using to block IPs from all five wikis with some documentation on using it, as I've been too sidetracked and other issues to run it with sufficient regularity. Do either of you have Python set up? -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 13:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I am used to C/C++ programming, but python should be easy enough. The logic I have in mind is something like this: ''IF'' ((the inserted text is at the beginning of the page) ''AND'' (the new text does not contain spaces)) ''THEN'' <nowiki>{popup the captcha} </nowiki>. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:General_disclaimer&diff=2857Marspedia:General disclaimer2008-01-04T00:04:34Z<p>Ioneill: Removing all content from page</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Sandbox&diff=2855Marspedia:Sandbox2008-01-04T00:02:27Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 81.180.65.2 (Talk); changed back to last version by Ioneill</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Sandbox}} <!-- To tinker on the announcement, please tinker on this template --><br />
<br />
<FONT STYLE = "font-family:'Purisa','Comic Sans','Comic Sans MS',Papyrus,Script,Handwritten"><BIG><BIG>Your mess goes here. Hit the EDIT tab to begin!</BIG></BIG></FONT><br />
<br />
<!-- Please feel free to erase anything below this line before playing around in here. Expect nothing to be even semi-permanent that you leave here. Please leave this comment and the template invocation here.--><br />
<br />
{{Move2space}}<br />
<br />
{{Stub}}<br />
<br />
[[exd:==InterWiki==<br />
[[Helium3]]<br><br />
[[Test_Inputbox]]<br><br />
[[lunarp:Test_Inputbox]]<br><br />
<br><br />
'''''Sandboxes'''''<br><br />
[[Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[exd:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[lunarp:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[marsp:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[sf:Sandbox]]<br><br />
<br />
'''''namespace collision and excessive typing test'''''<br><br />
[[lunarpedia:Lunarpedia:History]]<br />
<br />
===Test Interwiki buttons===<br />
[[exd:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>exd</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[exd:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>space</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[lunarp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>lunarp</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[marsp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>marsp</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[marsp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>sf</b></sup>]]<br />
My son made a Mars school project that was very thorough and worth sharing. He crafted his project based on a three step development process. Spaceships from Earth, both unmanned round rocket supply ships carrying food, Oxygen and Hydrogen, as well as Nuclear Photogenic reactors, would be send to Mars in conjunction with manned space shuttle spaceships that woudl carry space engineers (not scientists!), to stay on Mars for the sole purpose to setup the Nuclear Photogenic reactors for electricity/heat/CO2 converter, and to dig the trenches to put the temporary living quarters, and also build the initial clear plastic domes (lightweight) to house the future biotanical garden. The space engineers would then leave for another Mars colony construction site or rotate back to Earth and then the initial colonists would arrive to take up the next step of the colony. The colonists would construct/maintain the living quarters, plant vegatation, install distilory machines (all the ingredients to make alcohol on Mars!, for export/antiseptic/fuel/etc.) and also start deep mining activity to build future habitation below the surface (for the ultraviolet radiation is not blocked by Mars atmosphere, infrared is blocked by Carbon Dioxide). Steel production on Mars would also be a big export since Steel is 99% Iron and 1% carbon, which Mars has abundance of. The Nuclear photovoltic engines would provide the heat and electrical energy to support all the colonies power/heat needs. The colonists would also build pressurized containers to store fresh water, waste water, alcohol, ammonia, and compressed air such as methane, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen, and other medical needs such as nitrous oxide, hydrogen sulfide, etc. Recycling everything from water/kitchen/human waste is essential, and new biotanical gardens will be planted to expediate the conversion of waste back into reusable water/top soil. Supporting the biotanical gardens and creating new garden domes will be a life long career. Building tunnals below the surface will also be a career duty on Mars (reminds me of the movie "Total Recall". Once the colony is sustainable without need for resupply ships from Earth, then Mars can also function as a penial colony for the dual purpose to put hardened criminals to good use working to improve Mars as well as alleviating the population epidemic on Earth. Mars will then focus on its role as space port for exploration/colonization of Jupitor and Saturn moons.<br />
<br />
==Template play==<br />
<br />
<br />
{| style="font-size:8pt;margin:0 auto; clear:both;padding:4px 4px 4px 4px;background:#feeadf;border: solid 1px #CC6666;width:500px" cellspacing="0"<br />
|- <br />
! style="color:#feeadf;width:100%;background:#ba0000;font-size:10pt" colspan="3" | [[:Category:Settlements|<font color="#feeadf">Settlements</font>]]<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Settle.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Settlements|Designs]]:''' <br />
|[[Hillside settlement|Hillside settlement concept]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Plains settlement|Plains settlement concept]]<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Hazards.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Hazards|Hazards]]:''' <br />
|[[Coronal Mass Ejections|CMEs]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Dust storms]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Meteorites]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar flares]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar radiation]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar wind]]<br />
<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Location.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Regions|Locations]]:''' <br />
|[[Coronal Mass Ejections|CMEs]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Dust storms]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Meteorites]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar flares]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar radiation]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar wind]]<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Captcha Test ==<br />
Marspedia has some sister sites, a general space wiki at '''[http://exoplatz.org Exoplatz]''', a space dictionary at '''[http://exodictionary.org Exodictionary]''', a Moon wiki at '''[http://lunarpedia.org Lunarpedia]''', and scientific fiction at '''[http://scientifiction.org Scientifiction.org]'''.<br />
<br />
==Element template test==<br />
<br />
{{element|elementName=Oxygen|elementSymbol=O|protons=8|neutrons=8}}</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Needed_Articles&diff=2854Needed Articles2008-01-03T23:59:58Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 81.180.65.2 (Talk); changed back to last version by Rfc</p>
<hr />
<div>This is the global collection of lists of articles that are needed by [[Marspedia]] and shall be a guide for authors, who want to start new articles without knowing which direction to go.<br />
<br />
If you feel there is a list missing then please create it! Try to avoid creating empty lists - and keep the [[Marspedia:About#Marspedia_Policies|Marspedia policies]] in mind. You can create a missing list or work on an existing list. Both this list and the listed lists are maintained manually. <br />
<br />
Eventually, most of the links here should go from missing to existing, meaning this framework's goal will have been achieved.<br />
<br />
Please do not hesitate to update everything and bring in your ideas.<br />
<br />
<strong>To use this list:</strong><br />
* To add more types of articles, insert the names of one or more desired lists on this page. Be sure to use <nowiki>"[[" and "]]"</nowiki> to make it a link<br />
* Click on missing list links to open an editor window to supply a missing list.<br />
** Insert applicable article names into the new list, also with <nowiki>"[[" and "]]"</nowiki> each.<br />
** The new list should contain the line <nowiki>{{Bootstrap}}</nowiki> at the top.<br />
<br />
<br />
=='''A'''==<br />
[[List of Academia]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Agricultural Products]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Agricultural Technologies]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Analog Station Efforts]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Analog Station Designs]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Architectural Concepts]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Areas of Research]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Areological Articles]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Arts and Crafts]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''B'''==<br />
[[List of Biosphere Technologies]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Books]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Boosters]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Business Models]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''C'''==<br />
[[List of Construction Materials]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''E'''==<br />
[[List of Export Markets]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Exports]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Electrical Considerations]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''H'''==<br />
[[List of Habitat Concepts]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Health and Fitness]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Historical Articles]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''I'''==<br />
[[List of Import Markets]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Imports]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Industrialization Articles]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Infrastructure Considerations]]<BR/><br />
[[List of ISRU|List of In-situ Resource Utilization Methods]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''L'''==<br />
[[List of Logistical Considerations]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Mars Based Sciences]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''M'''==<br />
[[List of Major Settlement Challenges]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Maps]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Mission Designs and Options]] -- not presently existing reference missions to design<BR/><br />
[[List of Modules]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''O'''==<br />
[[List of Online Resources]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Outpost Activities]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Outpost Concepts]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''P'''==<br />
[[List of People]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Planned Missions]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Propulsion Systems]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Medical Risks]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Publications]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''R'''==<br />
[[List of Recreation]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Resource Development Articles]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Resources]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Robotic Missions]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Robots]] <BR/><br />
<br />
=='''S'''==<br />
[[List of Settlement Business Ideas]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Settlement Locations]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Shielding Options]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Site Management Issues]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Space Facilities]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Space Station and Module Companies]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Standards]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''T'''==<br />
[[List of Terraforming Issues]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Time Issues]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Transportation Systems]]<BR/><br />
<br />
=='''U'''==<br />
[[List of Unmanned Sites]]<BR/><br />
[[List of Urban Planning]]<BR/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Bootstrap lists]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Help:Contents&diff=2853Help:Contents2008-01-03T23:59:37Z<p>Ioneill: Protected "Help:Contents": avoid botnet spam in contents page [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]</p>
<hr />
<div><BIG>[[Marspedia:About|'''About Marspedia''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
Marspedia policies, differences between Marspedia and Wikipedia, technical information.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Help:Maintenance and Setup|'''Maintenance and Setup Help''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
This FAQ from the MediaWiki site covers many maintenance and setup issues.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Messy_Article_Tutorial|'''Messy Article Creation''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
When you want to get started but don't have time to learn the formatting rules.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Wikipedia Import|'''Wikipedia Import Help''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
How to bring a Wikipedia article here without violating the GNU FDL<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Links and Resources|'''Links and Resources''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
Where you can find more information<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Offsite_Links_In_Sidebar|'''Offsite Links In Sidebar''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
A short How-To for when you need to create an offsite link in the sidebar.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:External_Links_In_New_Window|'''External Links In New Window''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
How to make '''all''' external links open in a new browser window.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Using_Ref_tags|'''Using <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags in your document''']]</BIG><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<BIG></BIG><br />
<br />
[[Category:Help]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Help:Contents&diff=2852Help:Contents2008-01-03T23:58:56Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 81.180.65.2 (Talk); changed back to last version by Rfc</p>
<hr />
<div><BIG>[[Marspedia:About|'''About Marspedia''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
Marspedia policies, differences between Marspedia and Wikipedia, technical information.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Help:Maintenance and Setup|'''Maintenance and Setup Help''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
This FAQ from the MediaWiki site covers many maintenance and setup issues.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Messy_Article_Tutorial|'''Messy Article Creation''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
When you want to get started but don't have time to learn the formatting rules.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Wikipedia Import|'''Wikipedia Import Help''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
How to bring a Wikipedia article here without violating the GNU FDL<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Links and Resources|'''Links and Resources''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
Where you can find more information<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Offsite_Links_In_Sidebar|'''Offsite Links In Sidebar''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
A short How-To for when you need to create an offsite link in the sidebar.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:External_Links_In_New_Window|'''External Links In New Window''']]</BIG><BR/><br />
How to make '''all''' external links open in a new browser window.<br />
<br />
<BIG>[[Marspedia:Using_Ref_tags|'''Using <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags in your document''']]</BIG><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<BIG></BIG><br />
<br />
[[Category:Help]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=10th_International_Mars_Society_Convention&diff=285110th International Mars Society Convention2008-01-03T23:57:59Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 81.180.65.2 (Talk); changed back to last version by Pompolia</p>
<hr />
<div>== The 10th International Mars Society Convention ==<br />
This was held 30 Aug - 2 Sept 2007 at the University of California, Los Angeles. The [[International Mars Society convention]] presents a unique opportunity for those interested in [[Mars]] to come together and discuss the technology, science, social implications, philosophy and a multitude of other aspects of Mars exploration.<br />
<br />
== Highlights of the convention ==<br />
{| style="align: right;float: right;padding:0pt;background:#feeadf;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:10px;border: solid 1px #CC6666" cellspacing = 1;<br />
|style="background:#AA5500;color:#FFFFFF;font-weight:bold"|What<br />
|style="background:#FFFFFF;color:#000000;font-weight:bold"|Conference Convention<br />
|-<br />
|style="background:#AA5500;color:#FFFFFF;font-weight:bold"|When<br><br><br><br />
|style="background:#FFFFFF;color:#000000;font-weight:bold"|2007-08-30 15:00<br>to<br>2007-09-02 18:00<br />
|-<br />
|style="background:#AA5500;color:#FFFFFF;font-weight:bold"|Where<br><br><br />
|style="background:#FFFFFF;color:#000000;font-weight:bold"|University of California,<br>Los Angeles<br />
|-<br />
|style="background:#AA5500;color:#FFFFFF;font-weight:bold"|Add event<br>to calendar<br />
|style="background:#FFFFFF;color:#000000;font-weight:bold"|[http://www.marssociety.org/portal/c/Conventions/2007/tenth-international-mars-society-convention/vcs_view vCal]<br>[http://www.marssociety.org/portal/c/Conventions/2007/tenth-international-mars-society-convention/ics_view iCal]<br />
|}<br />
These will include the latest results from the [[Spirit]], [[Opportunity]], [[Mars Express]], and [[Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter]] missions now exploring the [[Red planet]], as well as reports from the historic four-month Mars mission simulation at the [[Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station]] on [[Devon Island]], 900 miles from the North Pole, and the sixth season of the [[MDRS|Mars Desert Research Station]]. There will also be extensive political discussions and planning meetings on how we can turn the new space policy into a real exploration initiative that can get humans to [[Mars]] in our time. The agenda will also include a wide assortment of panels and debates concerning key issues bearing on [[Mars]] exploration and settlement, a banquet with lots of fun entertainment, and plenary addresses from many prominent leaders of the effort to get humans to [[Mars]]. Prior conventions have drawn thousands of participants from all over the world and received extensive press coverage in many leading international media. This year’s conference should be the most exciting event to date.<br />
<br />
== Sponsorship Information ==<br />
Summary of Sponsorship Opportunities<br />
:PDF File [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Image:MS_Conf_2007_Sponsor_Info.pdf MS_Conf_2007_Sponsor_Info.pdf]<br><br><br />
:Microsoft Word Document [http://www.marssociety.org/portal/c/Conventions/2007/MS%20Conf%202007%20Sponsor%20Info.doc/attachment_download/file MS Conf 2007 Sponsor Info.doc]<br />
:Offsite link to www.marssociety.org - Last virus scanned by Marspedia, April 10, 2007<br />
<br />
== Elon Musk To Speak At 2007 Mars Society Convention ==<br />
The Mars Society has announced that [[Elon Musk]] will be speaking<br />
at the 10th International Mars Society Convention, which will be held<br />
at UCLA, Los Angeles, August 30-Sept 2, 2007.<br />
<br />
Elon Musk is the founder and CEO of [[SpaceX]], an entrepreneurial rocket<br />
development company that just made history by reaching an altitude of<br />
200 miles with its privately developed [[Falcon 1]] launch vehicle. Much<br />
larger [[Falcon 5]] and [[Falcon 9]] vehicles are reportedly under<br />
development that will allow SpaceX to radically reduce the cost of<br />
reaching space with both medium and large payloads. SpaceX is also<br />
developing a man-rated capsule to enable low-cost human<br />
transportation to space. Musk is also the Chairman of the Board of<br />
Tesla Motors, which just revealed its revolutionary high-speed<br />
electric car.<br />
<br />
In his talk, Elon Musk will lay out his vision and his plans for<br />
opening the space frontier. Come hear a real space cowboy!<br />
<br />
A biography of Elon Musk can be found at:<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk]<br />
<br />
Elon Musk's plenary talk will be presented on the morning of Friday<br />
August 31. It will be one of dozens of talks that will be given at<br />
the conference by leaders of both human and robotic space exploration<br />
efforts from around the world.<br />
<br />
Registration for the conference is now open at [http://www.marssociety.org www.marssociety.org].<br />
<br />
Those wishing to speak should send abstracts of no more than 300<br />
words to msabstracts@aol.com. Deadline is May 31, 2007.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[MIT Mars Society]]<br />
<br />
[[category:Mars Society Conventions]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Privacy_policy&diff=2849Marspedia:Privacy policy2008-01-03T23:57:17Z<p>Ioneill: Protected "Marspedia:Privacy policy" [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Privacy_policy&diff=2848Marspedia:Privacy policy2008-01-03T23:57:02Z<p>Ioneill: botnet activity</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Kennedy_Space_Center&diff=2846Kennedy Space Center2008-01-03T23:55:55Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 81.180.65.2 (Talk); changed back to last version by Ioneill</p>
<hr />
<div>==Overview==<br />
'''The Kennedy Space Center''' is located in Cape Canaveral (in Brevard County, Florida, near the Atlantic coast), sharing the location with [[Cape Canaveral Air Force Station]].<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
* [http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/home/index.html NASA's Kennedy Space Center homepage]<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{stub}}<br />
<br />
[[category:Mission Control Centers]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Kennedy_Space_Center&diff=2845Talk:Kennedy Space Center2008-01-03T23:55:03Z<p>Ioneill: botnet activity</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Rfc&diff=2829User talk:Rfc2008-01-02T16:13:58Z<p>Ioneill: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Messages==<br />
<br />
Welcome to Marspedia! I look forward to seeing more of you in the future. You seem familiar with wikis but if you need any help, look at http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#New_Users_Start_Here.21 or contact one of the admins. Enjoy! [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Ian, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I have started to write articles, and I should like to know your opinion. Is this the kind of article this project wants, or is it too fantastic, all-too much pointed to a speculative future? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Rfc (do you have a first name, or are you staying anonymous?), it's good to see you contributing in such a positive way. The content you have provided so far is great - any speculative future is fine in my books. Also, you can include your ''personal opinion'' (so long as you clearly state "<nowiki>{{PersPosArticle}} ~~~</nowiki>" which prints "{{PersPosArticle}} [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]]") - personal opinions are fine. Besides, it may create some good discussion. For the main part, article creation is positive step regardless of opinion, speculation or ideas as long as you are fine with a good debate! Anyhow, you seem to have experience with wikis and the content is looking good, so keep it up :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 19:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Site development===<br />
Hi, I'm just messaging the active contributers to Marspedia to get their views on the redesign of the front page. I've tried to highlight the important links and made the page more accessible to newcomers. Also I've created a Wikipedia-style "featured articles" section. I'd be really interested to hear your views on this. It's going to take a lot more work, but this is a good start. Primarily I want to extract the important info and cut down on the excessive text that may cause confusion (as suggested by a couple of you). However, I haven't removed anything as yet, simply jigged it around a bit. I'll look forward to getting your input :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:You did a great job, Ian! It really looks better. How about [[Main Page|my changes]]? It is just a proposal, so if you see a problem, please redo it. I am not entirely sure about the place for the "Notice" section. Is it required to stay on top of the page? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::Hi Rfc! Thank you, glad you like the redesign :-) I really like your changes too, but for now the copyright notice needs to stay where it is - although I'm getting confirmation from the developers. We are able to change certain things on the front page, but I'm worried about the copyright notice. I love the fact you've moved the "mission statement", that will stay where it is, but for now the copyright will have to stay unmoved. Nice work though! I will let you know when I get a reply to my email about further changes and we can take it from there. Also, suggestions for the slogan after "Welcome to Marspedia!" will be gratefully received, not sure if "''The collaborative resource for building a colony on the Red Planet.''" reads that well... Keep up the superb work! I've been reading your new articles and they are superb, I look forward to seeing more! Did you take a major in Mars settlement design?? Certainly looks like it ;-) Cheers, -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Does a "major in Mars settlement design" really exist? No, I am not, but I am used to design complex telecommunication systems, including some system engineering. I would love to do "Mars settlement design" fulltime, but I guess this is not good for earning the money I need for living (on Earth for the time beeing;-). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I really wish it did exist! I think the Mars Foundation once had a volunteer who took an engineering course in settlement design, but I dont think he's with us any more. There are ways to make a little cash from Mars settlement concepts, but it's mainly educational. Have a look at our site: [http://www.marshome.org/grants.php http://www.marshome.org/grants.php] to see what can be awarded. Really only useful for students at the moment, but we are hoping to develop funding eventually. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===List of Lists===<br />
The List of Lists exists solely for site development. I've hopefully answered some of your questions about it and copied the discussion over to the talk page for List of Lists. Ask more questions and propose things (or leap into action for that matter), just note that I may not respond for quite a few hours. It's daybreak here and I've been up since yesterday... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for explaining. Sweet dreams ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Blocking repeated bot offenders===<br />
Hey Rfc. Thanks for the idea to block the MER category and Exobiology page - only registered users can edit them now. Between us we probably reverted a hundred edits! At least these pages should be quiet for a month (I put a 1 month limit on the block to see if that is enough).<br />
<br />
Sorry I've been a little quiet of late, my laptop crashed last week and it looks like it's dead now, so i'm limited to using the family backup PC for now until I get a new machine. Any problems, I always have access to my email and will be checking Marspedia daily. <br />
<br />
Hope you are well and having a nice Christmas in Germany :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Featured Article===<br />
Hi Rfc. Thanks for the info on the MarsDrive article, will get to the bottom of who posted it :-)<br />
<br />
I have changed the featured article on the front page to the [[Greenhouse]] article you added a lot of new concepts to. Have a look. I used one of your diagrams as I thought it was most descriptive :-) Enjoy!<br />
<br />
Take care and catch you soon [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Mars_-_A_Brief_History_of_Exploration_(MarsDrive.com)&diff=2828Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com)2008-01-02T16:05:18Z<p>Ioneill: add ref to article</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Original article by Frank Stratford of [http://www.marsdrive.com MarsDrive]'''<br />
<br />
Mars. The Red Planet. Fourth planet from the Sun and close neighbour to Earth. Since prehistory people on Earth observed that faint star with a reddish hue and wondered what it meant. Red has always been a colour that represented war, blood and alarm and to human eyes it grabbed our attention from the start. <br />
<br />
No one knows what was happening on Mars during our prehistoric times but perhaps future human explorers may uncover such fascinating details as they scour Mars for signs of life and water. The Roman god named Mars was actually first associated with agriculture before becoming linked to the Greek god Ares the god of war.<br />
<br />
Observations of Mars were made from even before the Egyptian empire where in 1570 BC as early as the 28th Dynasty of the New Kingdom, Egyptians refer to Mars as "Horus of the Horizon", a God whom they depicted as a human with the head of a hawk. They also spoke of the planet travelling backwards, a reference to its retrograde motion” <br />
<br />
In 300 BC Aristotle noted that Mars was indeed further from the Earth than the Moon by observing its position in the sky. From these times many different observations were compiled by people like Ptolemy, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler and with Galileo in 1609 making the first direct observation of Mars via his newly created invention the telescope. <br />
<br />
Gradually the observations being made revealed greater and greater detail of Mars with the first pictures of Mars being drawn by Francisco Fontana in 1636 where he described Mars as not being “uniform in colour”. These observations were soon followed by the first description by Christiaan Huygens in 1659 of a feature of Mars of what we now believe to be Syrtis Major. <br />
<br />
In 1659 Christiaan Huygens also made the first close to accurate estimations of the distance of Mars from Earth and the period of the Martian day (24 hours+). In 1666 Gian Domenico Cassini observed the polar cap of Mars and determined the length of the Martian day to be 24 hours and 40 minutes. In 1672 Christiaan Huygens made a drawing of Mars which included a southern polar cap for the first time.<br />
<br />
For those times, to be able to actually see another planet would have been a most profound experience. To start seeing features and being able to make accurate measurements of distance, orbit and day length had started them all thinking about the similarities to Earth and in 1698 Huygens published a book called Cosmotheoros, a book about whether or not there is life on Mars.<br />
<br />
From 1698 and possibly before that time people had started to conclude that life must exist on Mars and in 1877 Giovanni Schiaparelli (1835-1910), an Italian astronomer, produces a detailed map of Mars based on his observations of the planet with an 8.5 inch refractor during a favorable conjunction. His map gave classical names to the features he observed. These feature names became widely accepted. <br />
<br />
This map is also famous for the inclusion of features Schiaparelli identified as canali, an Italian word for a naturally occuring channel. The 2 moons of Mars Phobos and Deimos were also discovered in 1877 by Asaph Hall an American astronomer and in 1894 Percival Lowell (1855-1916), American astronomer, establishes the Lowell Observatory outside of Flagstaff, Arizona. <br />
<br />
The observatory is built in time to carry out observations of the 1894 opposition of Mars. Using 12" and 18" refractors, observations are made continuously from the end of May 1894 through April 1895 by Lowell and his assistants W.H. Pickering and A.E. Douglass. These observations marked a turning point in the history of Mars explorations and lead to the photographing of the Martian canals in 1905 by C.O. Lampland. From that time until the first flyby of Mariner 4 in 1964 debate continued as to whether Mars had any kind of life on the surface. <br />
<br />
On the 14th of July 1965 Mariner 4 beamed the first pictures and data back from Mars. This first successful flyby of Mars returned 22 pictures of Mars while passing 9845 kilometers above the planet's surface. The most important finding of the mission was that the atmospheric pressure was between 4 and 7 mbar, based on data from the radio-occultation experiment. Contact with the probe was lost on 12/20/1967. This mission ended centuries of speculations and ignited a new chapter in the exploration of the red planet.<br />
<br />
Succeeding missions returned ever larger amounts of pictures and data confirming that Mars was a sterile and hostile world to life. Mariner 6 passed by in July of 1969 taking 75 photos and in August of that same year Mariner 7 returned 126 photos and data. <br />
<br />
Touchdown! <br />
<br />
On the 27th of November 1971 the Russian Mars 2 probe became the first human made instrument to land on the surface of Mars. It was unsuccessful in beaming back any information and Mars was in the midst of a global dust storm at the time so the orbiter sent back no useful pictures. November of 1971 marked the beginning of man made instruments being sent to explore the surface of Mars and on 20th July 1976 the American Viking 1 touched down in Chryse Planitia. <br />
<br />
The lander was more successful than expected returning vital data about Mars until its last communications on 11/13/1982. It gave us our first up close surface data and pictures and forever changed our view of Mars up to that point. In 1997 the first mobile rover mission made it to Mars and inspired a new generation to the amazing features of the red planet with its stunning discoveries and pictures. <br />
<br />
Today we are living in a time where man has now the first long term on surface missions still going on Mars in the form of the twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity which arrived at Mars in early 2004 and have given us a new appreciation of the geological processes which made Mars what it is today and has provided us with very human like views of the planets surface features. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has also reached Mars and will start beaming back the most detailed high resolution pictures and data possible later in 2006. <br />
<br />
From this and future missions like EXO Mars and Mars Science Lab our knowledge of Mars keeps on expanding and all of the information we have so far leads us to want to send humans even more. Mars may seem hostile and far away but it is the planet we have the most information on and even now it has an unprecedented amount of probes orbiting and on its surface sending back information on a daily basis. <br />
<br />
==Source==<br />
*[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html MarsDrive.com article: "Mars - a history and a future"]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[category:History]][[category:Essays]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Featured_articles&diff=2827Featured articles2008-01-02T16:02:33Z<p>Ioneill: remove spacing</p>
<hr />
<div>'''A featured article ring (or Mars "eclipse") [[Image:red_ring.png]] is awarded to articles that demonstrate exceptional clarity, detail or individuality. Articles in Marspedia can be [[Talk:Featured_articles|nominated by anyone]] and then reviewed by Marspedia's administrative staff. Currently, there are no time restraints on the featured article, and just because the article has been nominated ''does not mean it will be featured''! In time, this program will extend to "Featured Contributors" and "Featured Categories". See the [[Main_Page|front page]] for the current featured article.''' <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Currently Featured Article== <br />
{{Featured_article}} <br />
{{Featured_red_ring}} <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Previously Featured Articles== <br />
* January 2, 2008: [[Greenhouse]].<br />
* November 21, 2007: [[Mars Global Surveyor]]. <br />
<br />
[[category:Main Page Maintenance]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Template:Featured_Article&diff=2826Template:Featured Article2008-01-02T15:59:40Z<p>Ioneill: /* leftFeatured article: Greenhouse */ remove spacing</p>
<hr />
<div>===[[Image:red_ring.png|15px|left]]Featured article: [[Greenhouse]]===<br />
[[Image:WaterShieldGreenhouse.png|160px|left]]<br />
Growing plants in a '''Greenhouse''' delivers [[oxygen]] and [[food]]. It can play an important part in human recreation ([[Mars Garden Wins Gold at London’s Chelsea Flower Show (MarsHome.org)|Mars Garden]]) and may be a good location for [[funeral]]s and burials. The [[sunlight]] is not bright enough on Mars to allow usual terrestrial plants to thrive, but it provides a valuable part of light energy for plants. Additional [[energy]] is necessary for lighting and heating. '''([[Greenhouse|read more]])'''<br />
<div style="text-align:right"><br />
<small><strong>[[Featured articles|See all featured articles]]</strong> | [[Talk:Featured_articles|Nominate!]]</small><br />
</div><noinclude><br />
[[category:templates]][[category:Main Page Maintenance]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Featured_articles&diff=2825Talk:Featured articles2008-01-02T15:58:23Z<p>Ioneill: /* Featured Article Nominations */ added to nomination</p>
<hr />
<div>=Featured Article Nominations=<br />
Please nominate articles that are detailed and unique enough to be featured on the [[Main_Page|front page of Marspedia]]. Once we get started and begin to create larger articles, a more complex vetting criteria can be applied, but for now, feel free to give your suggestions below.<br />
<br />
'''Please leave the link to your nomination and sign your name afterwards for consideration'''<br />
<br />
* [[Greenhouse]] -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 15:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
* <del>[[Mars Global Surveyor]] (used for beta testing of Featured Article section) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)</del><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Info==<br />
This template will be undergoing development for the "Featured Article" section on the front page of Marspedia. As it will be used on the front page, '''the template will be locked''' to avoid malicious spambots and user graffiti our beloved [[Main_Page|front page]] :-). If you have suggestions for the development of this template, please leave a message here. A featured article list [[Featured articles|has it's own page]] and nominations can be made above.<br />
<br />
:--[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 02:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Featured_articles&diff=2824Featured articles2008-01-02T15:56:42Z<p>Ioneill: /* Previously Featured Articles */ add to list</p>
<hr />
<div>'''A featured article ring (or Mars "eclipse") [[Image:red_ring.png]] is awarded to articles that demonstrate exceptional clarity, detail or individuality. Articles in Marspedia can be [[Talk:Featured_articles|nominated by anyone]] and then reviewed by Marspedia's administrative staff. Currently, there are no time restraints on the featured article, and just because the article has been nominated ''does not mean it will be featured''! In time, this program will extend to "Featured Contributors" and "Featured Categories". See the [[Main_Page|front page]] for the current featured article.''' <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Currently Featured Article== <br />
{{Featured_article}} <br />
{{Featured_red_ring}} <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Previously Featured Articles== <br />
* January 2, 2008: [[Greenhouse]].<br />
* November 21, 2007: [[Mars Global Surveyor]]. <br />
<br />
[[category:Main Page Maintenance]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Greenhouse&diff=2823Greenhouse2008-01-02T15:55:09Z<p>Ioneill: adding red ring featured article</p>
<hr />
<div>[[image:Eden_project.jpg|thumb|right|300px|[[The Eden Project]]] (near St Austell, Cornwall, UK) is a terrestrial example of the possible use of large ''biomes'' as greenhouses and life support for Mars colonies. ''Image credit: Jürgen Matern]] <br />
Growing plants in a '''Greenhouse''' delivers [[oxygen]] and [[food]]. It can play an important part in human recreation ([[Mars Garden Wins Gold at London’s Chelsea Flower Show (MarsHome.org)|Mars Garden]]) and may be the place for [[funeral]]s. The [[sunlight]] is not bright enough on Mars to allow usual terrestrial plants to thrive, but it provides a valuable part of light energy for plants. Additional [[energy]] is necessary for lighting and heating. <br />
<br />
The greenhouse will be constructed from transparent material, allowing maximum sunlight to pass, generating an artificial "[[greenhouse effect]]". The spectral properties of the material should be optimized to match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll, maximizing the energy gain. <br />
<br />
Plants need a mix of air pressure and temperature. The greenhouse must be strong enough to hold that air pressure, and it must be insulating to hold the temperature inside. <br />
<br />
==Side-lit Greenhouse Concept== <br />
<br />
[[Image:Greenhouse_marsfoundation.jpg|thumb|left|300px|The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a side-lit greenhouse.]] <br />
The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a greenhouse involves the maximum use of local materials to avoid waste, maximize energy input and optimize space. Spawned from the [[Hillside settlement]] design, the greenhouse would most likely be located inside/next to a hill side (possibly in the location of [[Candor Chasma]]). Therefore [[regolith]] or some other absorbant material could be suspended above the greenhouse to protect occupants and plants from [[solar radiation|harmful radiation]]. The source of light would therefore be directed from the side, via an array of adjustable mirrors. A system of vents and ducts would allow warm air to circulate, perhaps even used to heat the main habitat.<br />
<br />
==Water-shield Greenhouse Concept==<br />
<br />
[[Image:WaterShieldGreenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Water-shield Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
[[Hydrogen]] does a good job absorbing [[cosmic radiation]]. [[Water]] contains highly concentrated hydrogen, and hence serves as a good radiation shield. On the other hand it is highly transparent for visible light and UV. The combination of both makes it an interesting material for greenhouse shielding.<br />
<br />
Under a strong pressure resistent housing the water is placed in a thick layer. It absorbes the dangerous parts of cosmic radiation and [[sunlight]] and passes most of the spectral parts needed by [[human]]s and plants. Additionally, it helps to buffer daily temperature variations because of its high specific heat capacity.<br />
<br />
The layering could be as follows: The outer layer is a construction of [[steel]] and [[glass]], providing enough strength for the difference in [[atmosphere|atmospheric pressure]]. It also serves as insulation for [[temperature]] differences. Additional sheets of glass or [[Synthetic materials|plastics]] improve the insulation effect. A [[self-healing puncture protection]] should be considered. The innermost layer is the water. It can be held by transparent canisters.<br />
<br />
==Multiplying Sunlight==<br />
[[Image:MultipleMirrorsForGreenhouse.png|thumb|left|300px|Multiple Mirrors for Greenhouse]] <br />
<br />
A set of mirrors can be used to bring more sunlight into the greenhouse than the base area of the greenhouse receives directly from the sun. Three times the amount of Martian sunlight should be enough to serve terrestrial plants. During good weather periods this allows growing vegetables without additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Underground Greenhouse Concept==<br />
[[Image:Underground Greenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Underground Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
<br />
If geothermal energy is not available the heating will consume large amounts of electrical energy. In this case the sum of energy used for lighting and heating must be considered. An underground greenhouse is easier to insulate to hold warmth inside. On the other hand the effort of lighting is higher, since no direct sunlight is used.<br />
<br />
This concept has some additional advantages: It is [[meteorites|meteorite]]-safe and [[radiation]]-safe.<br />
<br />
==Flora and fauna==<br />
Plants can be grown either in liquid fertilizer ([[hydroponics]]) or in [[soil]]. Many plants live in symbiosis with [[microbes]] and [[:category:insects|insects]]. [[Bee]]s can be used to pollinate the blossoms for fruit plants. Probably, the greenhouse is less labor-intensive with as many natural processes as possible.<br />
<br />
==Nutrition and Energy Calculations==<br />
Based upon the figures in the [[food]] and [[sunlight]] articles the following calculations can be carried out for an artificially lit greenhouse:<br />
<br />
The minimum size of cropland per person is about 365 m<sup>2</sup>. The needed light energy can be assumed with 1000 kWh per m<sup>2</sup> and year. The result is an annual amount of 365 MWh per person. In other words: An average illumination power of 41,67 kW per person is required.<br />
<br />
The usage of fluorescent lamps with an efficiency factor of 30% results in a requirement of about 140 kW per person in electrical energy. The overall efficiency of food production with artificially lit greenhouses is less then 1 permille, or in other words, to produce food with a content of 1 kWh the amount of more than 1 MWh in electricity must be spent.<br />
<br />
Parts of the required light can possibly be provided by direct or indirect sunlight. Heating the greenhouse will require additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues== <br />
*How long can plants survive without sunlight (e.g. during a dust storm)?<br />
*How many persons are needed to work in the greenhouse to produce enough food for a hundred persons?<br />
*How much energy is required for heating, especially during long lasting dust storms? This question can not be answered without an [[experimental setup#greenhouse heating|experimental setup]].<br />
*What temperature and air pressure do plants need?<br />
*What air pressure is needed for persons to work in the greenhouse? <br />
*What transparent materials match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll?<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.marshome.org/archives/2007/03/sidelit_greenho.php The Mars Foundation Side-lit Greenhouse design.]<br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}}<br />
<br />
{{Featured_red_ring}}<br />
<br />
[[category:biospherics]] <br />
[[category:greenhouse]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Template:Featured_Article&diff=2822Template:Featured Article2008-01-02T15:51:13Z<p>Ioneill: new featured article - Greenhouse</p>
<hr />
<div>===[[Image:red_ring.png|15px|left]]Featured article: [[Greenhouse]]===<br />
[[Image:WaterShieldGreenhouse.png|160px|left]]<br />
Growing plants in a '''Greenhouse''' delivers [[oxygen]] and [[food]]. It can play an important part in human recreation ([[Mars Garden Wins Gold at London’s Chelsea Flower Show (MarsHome.org)|Mars Garden]]) and may be a good location for [[funeral]]s and burials. The [[sunlight]] is not bright enough on Mars to allow usual terrestrial plants to thrive, but it provides a valuable part of light energy for plants. Additional [[energy]] is necessary for lighting and heating. '''([[Greenhouse|read more]])'''<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align:right"><br />
<small><strong>[[Featured articles|See all featured articles]]</strong> | [[Talk:Featured_articles|Nominate!]]</small><br />
</div><noinclude><br />
[[category:templates]][[category:Main Page Maintenance]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Greenhouse&diff=2821Greenhouse2008-01-02T15:45:06Z<p>Ioneill: /* Underground Greenhouse Concept */ typo</p>
<hr />
<div>[[image:Eden_project.jpg|thumb|right|300px|[[The Eden Project]]] (near St Austell, Cornwall, UK) is a terrestrial example of the possible use of large ''biomes'' as greenhouses and life support for Mars colonies. ''Image credit: Jürgen Matern]] <br />
Growing plants in a '''Greenhouse''' delivers [[oxygen]] and [[food]]. It can play an important part in human recreation ([[Mars Garden Wins Gold at London’s Chelsea Flower Show (MarsHome.org)|Mars Garden]]) and may be the place for [[funeral]]s. The [[sunlight]] is not bright enough on Mars to allow usual terrestrial plants to thrive, but it provides a valuable part of light energy for plants. Additional [[energy]] is necessary for lighting and heating. <br />
<br />
The greenhouse will be constructed from transparent material, allowing maximum sunlight to pass, generating an artificial "[[greenhouse effect]]". The spectral properties of the material should be optimized to match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll, maximizing the energy gain. <br />
<br />
Plants need a mix of air pressure and temperature. The greenhouse must be strong enough to hold that air pressure, and it must be insulating to hold the temperature inside. <br />
<br />
==Side-lit Greenhouse Concept== <br />
<br />
[[Image:Greenhouse_marsfoundation.jpg|thumb|left|300px|The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a side-lit greenhouse.]] <br />
The [[Mars Foundation]] concept for a greenhouse involves the maximum use of local materials to avoid waste, maximize energy input and optimize space. Spawned from the [[Hillside settlement]] design, the greenhouse would most likely be located inside/next to a hill side (possibly in the location of [[Candor Chasma]]). Therefore [[regolith]] or some other absorbant material could be suspended above the greenhouse to protect occupants and plants from [[solar radiation|harmful radiation]]. The source of light would therefore be directed from the side, via an array of adjustable mirrors. A system of vents and ducts would allow warm air to circulate, perhaps even used to heat the main habitat.<br />
<br />
==Water-shield Greenhouse Concept==<br />
<br />
[[Image:WaterShieldGreenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Water-shield Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
[[Hydrogen]] does a good job absorbing [[cosmic radiation]]. [[Water]] contains highly concentrated hydrogen, and hence serves as a good radiation shield. On the other hand it is highly transparent for visible light and UV. The combination of both makes it an interesting material for greenhouse shielding.<br />
<br />
Under a strong pressure resistent housing the water is placed in a thick layer. It absorbes the dangerous parts of cosmic radiation and [[sunlight]] and passes most of the spectral parts needed by [[human]]s and plants. Additionally, it helps to buffer daily temperature variations because of its high specific heat capacity.<br />
<br />
The layering could be as follows: The outer layer is a construction of [[steel]] and [[glass]], providing enough strength for the difference in [[atmosphere|atmospheric pressure]]. It also serves as insulation for [[temperature]] differences. Additional sheets of glass or [[Synthetic materials|plastics]] improve the insulation effect. A [[self-healing puncture protection]] should be considered. The innermost layer is the water. It can be held by transparent canisters.<br />
<br />
==Multiplying Sunlight==<br />
[[Image:MultipleMirrorsForGreenhouse.png|thumb|left|300px|Multiple Mirrors for Greenhouse]] <br />
<br />
A set of mirrors can be used to bring more sunlight into the greenhouse than the base area of the greenhouse receives directly from the sun. Three times the amount of Martian sunlight should be enough to serve terrestrial plants. During good weather periods this allows growing vegetables without additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Underground Greenhouse Concept==<br />
[[Image:Underground Greenhouse.png|thumb|right|300px|Underground Greenhouse Concept]] <br />
<br />
If geothermal energy is not available the heating will consume large amounts of electrical energy. In this case the sum of energy used for lighting and heating must be considered. An underground greenhouse is easier to insulate to hold warmth inside. On the other hand the effort of lighting is higher, since no direct sunlight is used.<br />
<br />
This concept has some additional advantages: It is [[meteorites|meteorite]]-safe and [[radiation]]-safe.<br />
<br />
==Flora and fauna==<br />
Plants can be grown either in liquid fertilizer ([[hydroponics]]) or in [[soil]]. Many plants live in symbiosis with [[microbes]] and [[:category:insects|insects]]. [[Bee]]s can be used to pollinate the blossoms for fruit plants. Probably, the greenhouse is less labor-intensive with as many natural processes as possible.<br />
<br />
==Nutrition and Energy Calculations==<br />
Based upon the figures in the [[food]] and [[sunlight]] articles the following calculations can be carried out for an artificially lit greenhouse:<br />
<br />
The minimum size of cropland per person is about 365 m<sup>2</sup>. The needed light energy can be assumed with 1000 kWh per m<sup>2</sup> and year. The result is an annual amount of 365 MWh per person. In other words: An average illumination power of 41,67 kW per person is required.<br />
<br />
The usage of fluorescent lamps with an efficiency factor of 30% results in a requirement of about 140 kW per person in electrical energy. The overall efficiency of food production with artificially lit greenhouses is less then 1 permille, or in other words, to produce food with a content of 1 kWh the amount of more than 1 MWh in electricity must be spent.<br />
<br />
Parts of the required light can possibly be provided by direct or indirect sunlight. Heating the greenhouse will require additional energy.<br />
<br />
==Open Issues== <br />
*How long can plants survive without sunlight (e.g. during a dust storm)?<br />
*How many persons are needed to work in the greenhouse to produce enough food for a hundred persons?<br />
*How much energy is required for heating, especially during long lasting dust storms? This question can not be answered without an [[experimental setup#greenhouse heating|experimental setup]].<br />
*What temperature and air pressure do plants need?<br />
*What air pressure is needed for persons to work in the greenhouse? <br />
*What transparent materials match the absorption characteristics of chlorophyll?<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.marshome.org/archives/2007/03/sidelit_greenho.php The Mars Foundation Side-lit Greenhouse design.]<br />
<br />
{{SettlementIndex}}<br />
<br />
[[category:biospherics]] <br />
[[category:greenhouse]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Featured_articles&diff=2819Featured articles2008-01-02T14:08:15Z<p>Ioneill: link</p>
<hr />
<div>'''A featured article ring (or Mars "eclipse") [[Image:red_ring.png]] is awarded to articles that demonstrate exceptional clarity, detail or individuality. Articles in Marspedia can be [[Talk:Featured_articles|nominated by anyone]] and then reviewed by Marspedia's administrative staff. Currently, there are no time restraints on the featured article, and just because the article has been nominated ''does not mean it will be featured''! In time, this program will extend to "Featured Contributors" and "Featured Categories". See the [[Main_Page|front page]] for the current featured article.''' <br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Currently Featured Article== <br />
{{Featured_article}} <br />
{{Featured_red_ring}} <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr/> <br />
<br />
==Previously Featured Articles== <br />
* November 21, 2007: [[Mars Global Surveyor]]. <br />
<br />
[[category:Main Page Maintenance]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Mars_-_A_Brief_History_of_Exploration_(MarsDrive.com)&diff=2818Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com)2008-01-02T13:55:13Z<p>Ioneill: adding ref ro MarsDrive - requires confirmation from author</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Original article by Frank Stratford of [http://www.marsdrive.com MarsDrive]'''<br />
<br />
Mars. The Red Planet. Fourth planet from the Sun and close neighbour to Earth. Since prehistory people on Earth observed that faint star with a reddish hue and wondered what it meant. Red has always been a colour that represented war, blood and alarm and to human eyes it grabbed our attention from the start. <br />
<br />
No one knows what was happening on Mars during our prehistoric times but perhaps future human explorers may uncover such fascinating details as they scour Mars for signs of life and water. The Roman god named Mars was actually first associated with agriculture before becoming linked to the Greek god Ares the god of war.<br />
<br />
Observations of Mars were made from even before the Egyptian empire where in 1570 BC as early as the 28th Dynasty of the New Kingdom, Egyptians refer to Mars as "Horus of the Horizon", a God whom they depicted as a human with the head of a hawk. They also spoke of the planet travelling backwards, a reference to its retrograde motion” <br />
<br />
In 300 BC Aristotle noted that Mars was indeed further from the Earth than the Moon by observing its position in the sky. From these times many different observations were compiled by people like Ptolemy, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler and with Galileo in 1609 making the first direct observation of Mars via his newly created invention the telescope. <br />
<br />
Gradually the observations being made revealed greater and greater detail of Mars with the first pictures of Mars being drawn by Francisco Fontana in 1636 where he described Mars as not being “uniform in colour”. These observations were soon followed by the first description by Christiaan Huygens in 1659 of a feature of Mars of what we now believe to be Syrtis Major. <br />
<br />
In 1659 Christiaan Huygens also made the first close to accurate estimations of the distance of Mars from Earth and the period of the Martian day (24 hours+). In 1666 Gian Domenico Cassini observed the polar cap of Mars and determined the length of the Martian day to be 24 hours and 40 minutes. In 1672 Christiaan Huygens made a drawing of Mars which included a southern polar cap for the first time.<br />
<br />
For those times, to be able to actually see another planet would have been a most profound experience. To start seeing features and being able to make accurate measurements of distance, orbit and day length had started them all thinking about the similarities to Earth and in 1698 Huygens published a book called Cosmotheoros, a book about whether or not there is life on Mars.<br />
<br />
From 1698 and possibly before that time people had started to conclude that life must exist on Mars and in 1877 Giovanni Schiaparelli (1835-1910), an Italian astronomer, produces a detailed map of Mars based on his observations of the planet with an 8.5 inch refractor during a favorable conjunction. His map gave classical names to the features he observed. These feature names became widely accepted. <br />
<br />
This map is also famous for the inclusion of features Schiaparelli identified as canali, an Italian word for a naturally occuring channel. The 2 moons of Mars Phobos and Deimos were also discovered in 1877 by Asaph Hall an American astronomer and in 1894 Percival Lowell (1855-1916), American astronomer, establishes the Lowell Observatory outside of Flagstaff, Arizona. <br />
<br />
The observatory is built in time to carry out observations of the 1894 opposition of Mars. Using 12" and 18" refractors, observations are made continuously from the end of May 1894 through April 1895 by Lowell and his assistants W.H. Pickering and A.E. Douglass. These observations marked a turning point in the history of Mars explorations and lead to the photographing of the Martian canals in 1905 by C.O. Lampland. From that time until the first flyby of Mariner 4 in 1964 debate continued as to whether Mars had any kind of life on the surface. <br />
<br />
On the 14th of July 1965 Mariner 4 beamed the first pictures and data back from Mars. This first successful flyby of Mars returned 22 pictures of Mars while passing 9845 kilometers above the planet's surface. The most important finding of the mission was that the atmospheric pressure was between 4 and 7 mbar, based on data from the radio-occultation experiment. Contact with the probe was lost on 12/20/1967. This mission ended centuries of speculations and ignited a new chapter in the exploration of the red planet.<br />
<br />
Succeeding missions returned ever larger amounts of pictures and data confirming that Mars was a sterile and hostile world to life. Mariner 6 passed by in July of 1969 taking 75 photos and in August of that same year Mariner 7 returned 126 photos and data. <br />
<br />
Touchdown! <br />
<br />
On the 27th of November 1971 the Russian Mars 2 probe became the first human made instrument to land on the surface of Mars. It was unsuccessful in beaming back any information and Mars was in the midst of a global dust storm at the time so the orbiter sent back no useful pictures. November of 1971 marked the beginning of man made instruments being sent to explore the surface of Mars and on 20th July 1976 the American Viking 1 touched down in Chryse Planitia. <br />
<br />
The lander was more successful than expected returning vital data about Mars until its last communications on 11/13/1982. It gave us our first up close surface data and pictures and forever changed our view of Mars up to that point. In 1997 the first mobile rover mission made it to Mars and inspired a new generation to the amazing features of the red planet with its stunning discoveries and pictures. <br />
<br />
Today we are living in a time where man has now the first long term on surface missions still going on Mars in the form of the twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity which arrived at Mars in early 2004 and have given us a new appreciation of the geological processes which made Mars what it is today and has provided us with very human like views of the planets surface features. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has also reached Mars and will start beaming back the most detailed high resolution pictures and data possible later in 2006. <br />
<br />
From this and future missions like EXO Mars and Mars Science Lab our knowledge of Mars keeps on expanding and all of the information we have so far leads us to want to send humans even more. Mars may seem hostile and far away but it is the planet we have the most information on and even now it has an unprecedented amount of probes orbiting and on its surface sending back information on a daily basis. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[category:History]][[category:Essays]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Early_warning_system_(solar_radiation)&diff=2817Early warning system (solar radiation)2008-01-02T13:53:41Z<p>Ioneill: +cat and -cat</p>
<hr />
<div>Like Earth, Mars has its own [[Lagrangian point]]s with the Sun. Currently there are no man-made satellites in <math>L_{1(Mars)}</math> or <math>L_{2(Mars)}</math> orbit, but it is conceivable that these islands of gravitational stability may be used to greatly benefit future Mars colonies. <br />
<br />
==Early warning system for the onset of solar storms== <br />
<div style="margin-left:10px;padding:5px 5px 5px 5px;float:right;width:160px;text-align:center;border:solid 1px #888888;background-color:#fff"><br />
{|<br />
|style="background-color:red;text-align:center"|<br />
'''Danger'''<br/><br />
<small>Critical danger of acute solar radiation poisoning. '''Seek shelter immediately'''.</small><br />
|-<br />
|style="background-color:orange;text-align:center"|<br />
'''Caution'''<br/><br />
<small>Caution recommended. Only travel unprotected for short periods of time.</small><br />
|-<br />
|style="background-color:green;text-align:center"|<br />
'''Safe'''<br/><br />
<small>Minimal solar activity. Preceed with guarded caution. Have a good day :)</small><br />
|}<br />
<small>'''A possible simple "flag" system to warn colonists of solar radiation levels'''</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
Instruments in the Earth-Sun <math>L_1</math> point already provide scientists on Earth with an '''early warning system''' to monitor [[:category:Space Weather|space weather]]. Probes such as ''SoHO'' and ''ACE'' receive solar ions approximately an hour before they impact the Earth's atmosphere.<ref>[http://www.astroengine.net/projects.php#svalbard Project: ''Solar Wind – Magnetospheric Interaction: Magnetic Storms and the Aurora'' (page 16), Ian J. O'Neill and Gareth P. Thomas, University Center on Svalbard (UNIS), April 2002]</ref> This not only provides excellent diagnostic data, but also gives advanced warning to companies and organizations that the Earth is 60 minutes away from experiencing an increase in [[solar radiation]]. Emergency procedures can be enacted accordingly, possibly saving delicate satellites and astronauts. <br />
<br />
A simple, cost effective probe may be inserted into the Mars-Sun <math>L_1</math> point. This probe needn't be as sophisticated as ''SoHO'' or ''ACE'', it just needs to monitor the flux of energetic particles travelling toward Mars. Akin to a "flag" system on a patrolled beach (red for "dangerous", no swimming. Green for "safe", water is safe), Mars settlers could have advanced warning of an incoming [[CME]] from the Sun. If constantly measured by a particle detector on the probe at the <math>L_1</math> point, various stages of danger levels may be used to indicate to settlers unprotected on the surface of what severity of risk they are in. Surface "walkabouts" may be tightly restricted by such a system.<br />
<br />
==Outstanding design issues==<br />
===The Mars <math>L_1</math> time lag problem?===<br />
The distance between Earth's <math>L_1</math> point (with the probes measuring solar particles) and the planet is approximately 1.5 million km. This provides information on the solar wind particles approximately 1 hour before they are received on Earth. Mars is a less massive planet than the Earth, therefore, Mars' <math>L_1</math> point will be closer to the planet than the Earth's. <br />
<br />
Reaching a logical conclusion, assuming solar particles are travelling at the same velocity in near-Mars orbit as with near-Earth orbit, a Mars early warning system of the design outlined above will be less effective than the terrestrial version. So, how much time will the Mars early warning system provide to colonists from detection (at <math>L_1</math>) to impact (at Mars' surface)?<br />
<br />
Using the equation from [[Lagrangian point]] calculations:<br />
<br />
<br />
:<math>r \approx R \sqrt[3]{\frac{M_M}{3 M_S}}</math> <br />
<br />
<br />
where <math>r</math> is the distance of <math>L_1</math> from Mars, <math>R</math> is the distance between the bodies and <math>M_M</math> and <math>M_S</math> are the masses of Mars and the Sun respectively.<br />
<br />
Using <em>R</em> = 2.28 &times; 10<sup>11</sup> meters, <em>M</em><sub>M</sub> = 6.4191&times;10<sup>23</sup> kg and <em>M</em><sub>S</sub> = 1.98892&times;10<sup>30</sup> kg, we arrive at a value of:<br />
<br />
<br />
:<math>r \approx 1.08 \times 10^9</math> meters or 1.08 million km, 72% of the distance of Earth's 1.5 million km. <br />
<br />
<br />
Now, keeping the assumption that it will approximately take solar ions 60 minutes to travel 1.5 million km (from Earth's <math>L_1</math> point to Earth), the time from <math>L_1</math> to Mars' surface = 60 &times; 72% = '''43.2 minutes'''.<br />
<br />
Although 43 minutes is less than the warning time Earth-based solar wind probes are able to provide, this is not a great reduction in lag time, and would still greatly benefit the humans unprotected from solar radiation.<br />
<br />
===References===<br />
<references/> <br />
<br />
[[category:concepts]] <br />
[[category:Space Weather]]<br />
[[category:essays]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioneill&diff=2816User talk:Ioneill2008-01-02T13:43:51Z<p>Ioneill: /* plagiarism? */ reply to Rfc ;-)</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi Ian, it's good to actually see content starting to appear.<br />
<br><br><br />
I'm unaware of how much you already know about MediaWiki the Marspedia software, so please bear with me if you already know some of the following.<br />
<br><br><br />
There are a few templates you should look at, you can see two of them on my Marspedia [[User:Mdelaney|User]] and [[User_talk:Mdelaney|User_talk]] pages for instance. I also added two User-boxes to your User-page. You can call those with <nowiki>{{User Marsp Sysop}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{User Marsp Server Admin}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
Those would called using:<br><br />
<nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to exodictionary user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to lunarpedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to marspedia user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Go to scientifiction user talk}}</nowiki><br />
<br><br><br />
I also made that Create Category button into a template, that can now be called with <nowiki>{{CreateCat}}</nowiki>, this should simplify some tasks.<br />
<br><br><br />
If you don't like the names of the templates you can move them, this also creates a redirect to the new name from the old name for backwards compatibility. Just don't delete the original names, and please don't delete the "Go to" templates, we have a few people who want to be active on both sites, but only maintain one user page. They only work if the user has the same name in both wikis by the way. I'm still in the process of importing some of the templates to the other wikis, but please feel free to register on the others and use the templates to help you maintain just one user page.<br />
<br><br><br />
You can create hanging indents with colons (:)<br />
:You can sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, this inserts your user sig along with a time and date stamp in UTC. If you really want to do it manually you can do so, using <nowiki>-- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] hh:mm, dd Month yyyy (PST)</nowiki>, but we don't recommend that as it leads to confusion, as I found out when I started using (BST) and confused a bunch of people. Another variation is to sign it without the time and date stamp with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
If the lines of text are short and wont run off the page, you can put<br />
them in a box by leaving a leading space at the start of the line.<br />
<br />
Most other stuff is on the edit bar, the S is a spell checker, I hope to add more to that edit bar in the coming weeks as people tell me what they need.<br />
-- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 03:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sidebar - Navigation section == <br />
<br />
Just wondering which of these you find least useful:<br> <br />
* Category Tree<br> <br />
* Category List A-Z<br> <br />
* Index<br> <br />
Personally I don't use the second one all that much, but I have found it useful on occasion. Both the second and third ones are available via "Special pages". <br />
<br />
I'm just trying to shorten the menu a little, unlike on Lunarpedia where I'll deliver a devastating blow to the menu in the near future. That one has 29 items in it. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 22:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC) <br />
<br />
I agree, the Category List A-Z is least useful - for now I am always using the Category Tree. I think the Index will come into more use once more pages appear as we'll need a quick way of over viewing the whole of the wiki. I'm also keen to make the menu system as simple as possible, so anything that seems superfluous I think we can dispense with. Thanks for all the pointers above, they will come in useful for anyone needing a poke in the right direction -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User and User_talk pages on other wikis ==<br />
<br />
Ian, I suggest you protect your User and User_talk pages on the other wikis, otherwise wombles '''will''' edit them and leave messages there. The User pages are protected from anonymous editing (they can only be edited by the user or someone with sysop or higher permission) but not the User_talk pages. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 00:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks Mike, I will protect them - forgot about looking into that :-) We will triumph over the wombles! Cheers -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Emm, I meant the other way. Protect the User_talk pages on Lunarpedia and Exodictionary and leave the User_talk page on Marspedia unprotected. But protect all User pages of the non-talk variety. Unless you want to be completely unreachable to non sysops. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediawiki Imports ==<br />
<br />
::If you haven't already read [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] you should. It does make life easier. But.... <br />
<br />
::Wikipedia is a dependency nightmare!<br />
<br />
::I tried to import a template to Lunarpedia earlier, it only had 2 dependencies. Or so I thought. But one of those dependencies had 17 dependencies, each of which had 4-7 dependencies. Admittedly there was some overlap, but I still would have had to import about 20 templates just to get '''one''' to work.<br />
<br />
::Don't let the Wikipedia mess suck you in. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 21:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey Mike, yes, I noticed that dependency - when I was adapting the &quot;Leave me a message&quot; box, even tat was linked to 3 templates! I squished them all into one when I put it on Marspedia, but if there's a call for small box templates I'll include the dependencies. Everything is looking superb by the way. I'm hoping to have a flurry of new content in the next few days. Everything going to plan people will take our lead soon and begin submitting in droves... -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::They're taking their time. But it took Lunarpedia a couple of weeks to kick off. Maybe when the easter breaks are all over, if they're not already. -- [[User:Mdelaney|Mdelaney]] 20:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Attacks==<br />
'''Lunarpedia''' and '''Marspedia''': IP addresses are temporary. That said, I'm looking to see if there may be value in increasing the time from 1 week to 1 month, if some of these are lasting long enough for a longer ban period to make sense (don't want collateral damage when someone else gets this IP and wants to constructively contribute at some point in the future, completely unaware that their IP at that moment was previously used for destructive activities when someone else had it; 216.23.162.164 was still a zombie IP in a previous attack, so let me note to ban that one for longer). This specific, malicious attacker is using a small botnet. The trick is to keep the IPs of its zombies banned. I have a script I created for banning the IPs. Let me see if I can get it up so that others can try using it. It requires Python to run and creates a local html file. -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Script up at [http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Lunarpedia:BWABOM_LMEES]. now using it...-- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Exodictionary''', '''Exoplatz''', and '''Scientifiction.org''': The neverending deluge of Chinese SPAM is beyond my ability to control. CAPTCHAs are effective against this attacker, but Mike has not been able to find time to apply it and the machine with the passwords I need to do something drastic is not yet back up and running. I'm thinking of preventing new account creation or even redirecting the domains to Lunarpedia until CAPTCHAs can be installed. 8\ -- [[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 23:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contents from Wikipedia? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, should we copy information about Mars from Wikipedia on the large scale? Even whole articles? To me it seems it makes not much sense to have any information twice, but on the other hand we do not know when valuable information in Wikipedia vanishes. May be we should move the information instead of copying from Wikipedia to Marspedia, leaving only a small and compact Mars article in Wikipedia, along with a link to Marspedia. I think, this would encourage some Wikipedia writers to put marsian information into this project. I am unsure about the relation of the two projects. Reading [[Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import]] does not really answer my question. Best Regards [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, just so you know, Wikipedia and Marspedia are two independent projects, we have no affiliation with Wikipedia. The only wikis we administer are Lunarpedia, Exoplatz, ExoDictionary and Scientifiction. Therefore, we can copy information from Wikipedia, but we certainly cannot remove any in preference for a link to Marspedia. <br />
<br />
:We are actually looking into the Mars article situation, there are some advantages to exporting the "Mars" page on Wikipdia to Marspedia, but we then risk Marspedia becoming a "copy" of Wikipedia. If we do copy any articles from Wikipedia, we MUST use the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> template, as used here: http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=GFDL:Eccentricity and be sure we abide by the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Wikipedia_Import GFDL Licencing]. As you can see from the [[:Category:Wikipedia Based Articles|Wikipedia articles listed in Marspedia]], individuality is lost somewhat. So, generally, yes, we can import (or copy and paste) public sources (aka Wikipedia), but we have to be very careful not to violate any licencing laws and be sure to reference ALL external meterial. <br />
<br />
:Marspedia is hopefully going to be a huge and comprehensive encyclopedia of Mars eventually, so any articles on Wikipedia will be dwarfed in time. I see what you mean about duplicating articles, but in the aim of being unique on the web, we should strive to produce as much "original" work as possible. I hope that was of some help. Cheers, [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, yes this answers my question, and I agree with it. Too, I would not feel very comfortable with many <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> templates. So, let's write our own articles, and make it to Mars, eventually. I am happy with the Marspedia idea this way. Thanks and Cheers! [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minimizing duplication of effort == <br />
<br />
We seem to be accumulating a lot of pages about launch vehicles, but I'm slightly worried about duplication of effort with Exoplatz, Lunarpedia etc. Wouldn't it make sense to have detailed info on launch vehicles and providers on Exoplatz, and maybe have a single page Marspedia listing launch vehicles that would be useful for Mars missions? (I guess the same goes for rocket engines too). [[User:PeterBrett|Peter]] 17:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC) <br />
:Hi Peter, I think most of the [[:category:launch vehicles|launch vehicles]] mentioned on Marspedia have some involvement with Mars missions. However, the one I had just uploaded in "[[:category:Emerging Technology|Emerging Technology]]" is experimental and ''may'' have a use for Mars missions (in my opinion). Also, the [[Delta IV]] article, although not currently linked to Mars missions, has obvious advantages for the hauling of heavy equipment bound for Mars. I do agree with your point about perhaps shifting some articles to Exoplaz, but I think it's equally important to generate unique articles on Marspedia too. As for duplication, this should be kept to a minimum, but I don't see anything wrong with having one article on Marspedia with a distinct "Mars" twist with a backup, generalized article on Exoplaz. Creating a list of launch vehicles used for Mars missions would be really advantageous, but the content for that list should be on Marspedia mainly. Hope this is of some help and makes sense (had a late night) :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::For the time being it may be best to keep these things on Marspedia and Lunarpedia, at least until we can finally deal with an ongoing out-of-control situation on Exoplatz, Exodictionary, and Scientifiction.org (which needs to be pointed to by Exofiction and probably renamed accordingly). Sorry for the inconvenience. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] versus [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Ian, I find the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]] very helpful to find out, what nonexistent pages are most wanted by other articles. However, I can not really see the use case for the [[List_of_Lists|Needed articles]], though it is prominently placed on the side bar and on the front page. Also, it seems to be empty. What is the purpose? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Rfc, I can see your issue. But the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] and [[List_of_Lists|needed articles]] are two separate entities. Firstly, the "wanted pages" are a list of links on existing pages that lead nowhere and [[road to nowhere|look like this]]. As you say, this is really useful as you can have a "display all" list of "missing" pages. <br />
<br />
:This is different from the "[[List_of_Lists|needed articles]]" (usually referred to as the "List of Lists"). This list was created by the developers and by the directors of the [[Mars Foundation]] (mainly) to "steer" the efforts of Marspedia. These lists are the "desired" articles we would like to see being created. All the lists were created by hand and doesn't really reflect the current content on Marspedia. So, in summary:<br />
:*'''Most useful''': [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]] - Pages that are linked to in Marspedia, but do not exist yet.<br />
:*'''Least useful, but desired''': [[List_of_Lists|List of Lists]] - Desired articles we would ''like'' to see and ''may not'' exist yet (I say ''may not'' as the lists need to be updated manually). Refer to this list to see which direction in which we hope to see Marspedia moving in.<br />
<br />
:Thanks for pointing this difference out, I think we need a better link to the [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] section on the front page :-) Will do that now -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have overhauled the introduction of [[List of Lists]]. There seems to be some redundancy with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]. But there are also differences: The advantage of [[List of Lists]] is the involvement of empty lists. The advantage of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is the automatism. The problem with [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] is all entries will be "L" entries.<br />
<br />
How about the following rearrangement: <br />
* Changing the names of the lists from "List of ..." to "... (List of needed articles)"<br />
* Allow empty lists<br />
* Enhance the introduction of [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]]<br />
* Abandon the [[List of Lists]], because [[:Category:Bootstrap_lists]] will then meet all properties of [[List of Lists]].<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 08:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The '''List of Lists of Needed Articles''' is a concept I developed at Lunarpedia as a short to medium term tool for helping to get needed articles indicated for bootstrap purposes (and has proven to be the most useful such effort on Lunarpedia). The execution of the concept was largely quick and dirty (with some tidying over time) and the start of the Marspedia list of lists was to take the Lunarpedia one and and rip out hopefully all of the entries that didn't really belong on Marspedia's list. As you're the first Marspedia regular to do any work on it, it's presently missing a great deal of needed entries.<br />
<br />
:The main value of the category right now is to keep the bootstrap articles categorized (every article on the site should have a place in the category tree (this rule is Mike Delaney's doing) -- even quick and dirty badly formatted bootstrap lists that are destined to become legacy historical curiosities that served their purpose already).<br />
<br />
:Why I don't like empty lists is a matter of thought process. If you're brainstorming for types of articles, you can quickly browse for missing links for bootstrap lists and create a few. When a list is empty, you don't know it's useless until you click on it hoping to find at least a short list of article ideas and see that you can't do what you'd hoped to do without changing gears first. <br />
<br />
:Another point in defense of the status quo is that adding 15 entries to the main list is easier than creating 15 empty lists. I have generally only done one task at a time -- adding needed lists to the main list, creating new lists from the main list, adding to lists, or creating articles (not that I've had enough time to do the latter -- when I have time to work on the wikis I'm usually too occupied with overhead tasks to actually do articles) -- if no one else actually finds it convenient to do things this way that could be an argument for substantially modifying the concept. <br />
<br />
:I hope this helps explain my thought processes and why it is the way you found it. By all means think of ways to improve it or maybe make the originally (and so far still) intended way to use it less difficult to figure out. Until I created the bootstrap list tag, people on Lunarpedia kept tidying up the lists and categorizing them for general use. 8)<br />
<br />
:As for the categorization problem, that's a function of the template doing the categorization. I can think of two solutions that preserve the 'List of' name scheme: one is to manually categorize each article (as was originally the case), and another is to figure out how to get the template to automatically do the likes of ''[<B></B>[Category:List of Articles on Lovecraftian Lullabies|Lovecraftian Lullabies, List of Articles on]<B></B>]''... <br />
<br />
:Simpler in execution would be your suggestion to change to a naming convention that doesn't have this problem, but what is one that wouldn't have a risk of colliding with the name of a content article or some other potentially needed site infrastructure? I suppose one advantage of Marspedia's List of Lists of Needed Articles is that any major conceptual changes won't be too much work to implement -- unlike on Lunarpedia. While any innovations that are devised here may not be feasible to do on Lunarpedia, they could be transferred to Exoplatz, which is mostly at the moment content that was originally on Lunarpedia buried in a sea of stuff added by a Chinese botnet I can't prevent from successfully attacking right now.<br />
<br />
:As always, thank you very much your your efforts, attention, and ideas! <br />
<br />
:We probably should move this thread to the List of Lists talk page. --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SettlementIndex==<br />
Hi Ian, there is the following problem with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>: It has an impact on the "What links here" function, resulting in a too big listing mutually. Yet, I have no idea to avoid it. -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Rfc, I've just tried to replicate what you describe, but I can't seem to find the problem. I went to [[template:SettlementIndex]] and clicked "What links here" and it seems to work fine. I tried it on a page with the template used, but again, no problem. Which page did you experience the error? -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::For example, when I click "What links here" on the [[Energy storage]] page then I get a list that includes a lot of pages that do not really link to [[Energy storage]]. The [[Democracy]] page, for instance, does not actively link to [[Energy storage]], but is listed. Same with [[Immune system]], etc. I find this confusing. This effect obviously comes from the generated links within the "Manned Missions to Mars" box shown on all pages with the <nowiki>{{SettlementIndex}}</nowiki>. Is this wanted, or is it an unwanted side effect? How about changing the [[Template:SettlementIndex]] to a contents of only categories? -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah, I see your problem. To be honest, I didn't realise this template would screw up the "linked to" operation. I will have to look into this and possibly simplify the template (as you say, perhaps make it a category only template). Will also try getting info on how wikipedia gets around this problem. Thanks for pointing this out! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 18:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I've done some research for you, it looks like the same issue exists in Wikipedia. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Coronal_loop for the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_loop. The bottom solar template produces links in the "What links here" list. I think this is inavoidable, except for producing templates with a minimum of links. Do you use the "What links here" option a lot? I must admit, I use it only very rarely. --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I sometimes use it to check the relation between the pages. There is some idea of relation in my thoughts, and I find this feature quite comfortable to check this idea against the existing network. The problem is not urgent at all. It is just something I stumbled on. Cheers:-) -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 07:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, sounds reasonable. I will try to think up any alternatives to the "What links here" function can still be used. Perhaps there is some tag that can be used in the template to disable inclusion in the "linked to" list... I'll have a look. Let me know if you find anything out ;) --[[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Blocking?==<br />
Hi Ian, the frequent vandalism on [[Exobiology]] and [[:Category:MER images]] seem to require temporary blocking those pages for everyone but registered users. What do you think? Wishing you Merry Xmas! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plagiarism? ==<br />
<br />
The new article [[Mars- A Brief History of Exploration]] seems to be an unlicensed copy from<br />
[http://www.marsdrive.com/news/mars--a-history-and-a-future.html]. It looks as if this copy was made with good intentions, but probably we have to remove it. Any other idea? With best wishes for the new year! -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 13:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I have just been editing that - the only problem is, we have had members of MarsDrive adding stuff in the past, so this might be the author of the article adding his MarsDrive article. The Foundation have several contacts in MarsDrive, so I'm hoping the article was added by one of them. I will look up the IP address and see if we had them logged the last time. Otherwise, I'll message MarsDrive and ask them if they added it themselves. For now I'm going to make sure it is well-referenced so visitors know it's not Marspedia-original! Which MarsDrive page was this on? I'll ref the correct url then ;-) Best wishes to you too for the New Year! I hope you're having a wonderful festive holiday! -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Sunlight&diff=2815Sunlight2008-01-02T13:38:15Z<p>Ioneill: some minor additions :-)</p>
<hr />
<div>The [[Sun]] is on average 2.28 million km away from [[Mars]]. '''Sunlight''' takes 13 minutes to travel from the Sun to Mars with a power of 589 W/m<sup>2</sup>. It is not as bright as on [[Earth]] (1367 W/m<sup>2</sup>). No one has ever seen it, but it probably gives the impression of dawn or dusk during daytime. Colonists should have this impression only for a few days until their visual cortex adapts.<br />
<br />
The Martian [[atmosphere]] does not filter sunlight as efficiently as on Earth, leaving to much UV ray and high energy particles to reach the surface. Life is considered not possible without additional shielding against [[cosmic radiation]] (perhaps highlighting the need for an [[Early warning system (solar radiation)|early warning system]]) and parts of the [[solar radiation|solar spectrum]].<br />
<br />
The amount of usable energy on the surface is lower due to the rotation of the planet and the angle of the plain. Also, reflection and absorption ([[albedo]]) at the atmosphere must be considered. On Earth the annual usable energy per m<sup>2</sup> is about 1000 kWh in Middle Europe and 2400 kWh in the Sahara.<br />
<br />
==Facts and figures==<br />
"in the UK we receive an average power of about 125 Wm<sup>-2</sup> whilst the Sahara Desert gets 250-300 Wm<sup>-2</sup>" <ref>[http://cms.ises.org/uploads2/SSF/pictures/materials/307/solarrad.PDF the SOLAR ENERGY society: Solar Radiation - Distribution and Availability of Solar Energy]</ref>.<br />
<br />
With 24*365 hours per year this results in an average usable energy per m<sup>2</sup> and year of 1095 kWh in the UK and 2190-2628 kWh in the Sahara.<br />
<br />
==Open issues==<br />
* What are the phychological and physiological effects of the permanent dim light on humans, animals and plants?<br />
* Are there scientific facts of a positive effect of artificial light to compensate the lack of sunlight?<br />
* What is the annual usable energy on Mars in the equator region?<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
[[Category: Solar system]]<br />
[[Category: Climate]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Deletion&diff=2813Deletion2008-01-02T13:29:45Z<p>Ioneill: /* Articles for deletion */ agreed on article removal</p>
<hr />
<div>=Deletion of Articles and Categories=<br />
<br />
Although we want to have all material due to [[Main_Page#Marspedia Policies|Marspedia Policies]] there are some cases making the deletion of [[Marspedia:Article|articles]] or [[Marspedia:Category|categories]] necessary. These are:<br />
<br />
* Somebody creates an article with a misspelled name inadvertently. When she/he becomes aware of it, she/he wants to get rid of it.<br />
* Two articles on the same subject are merged. Usually a [[Marspedia:Redirection|redirection]] is the right thing to do, but in certain cases one of the names might be useless.<br />
* A [[Marspedia:Category|category]] might become useless after a change in the [http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Category:Main category tree].<br />
<br />
Anybody can nominate an article or category for deletion by just listing it in the appropriate section below. The deletion itself can only be done by a user with sysop permission.<br />
<br />
==Articles for deletion==<br />
*<del>[[Create an Article to this category]] (obviously inadvertently created)</del> -- article removed by [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 13:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
*''[[Space Suit]] (capital letter starts the second word. This is only a dead redirect.)'' -- no need to delete, redirect still operating. May delete later if required. [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
*''[[Space Suits]] (plural. This is only a dead redirect.)'' -- redirect edited to "Space suit", may delete at a later time. [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 22:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
* <del>[[Marspedia:Privacy policy]] (gibberish vandalism)</del> -- article removed by [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 02:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC).<br />
<br />
==Categories for deletion==<br />
* <del>[http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Category:Human_Missions Category:Human Missions] (This category is redundant with "Manned Missions", is not part of the tree, is not used with an article and thus is useless.)</del> - category removed by [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Cleanup]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Mars_-_A_Brief_History_of_Exploration_(MarsDrive.com)&diff=2811Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com)2008-01-02T13:26:06Z<p>Ioneill: Mars- A Brief History of Exploration moved to Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com): clarifying title - shifted to essays</p>
<hr />
<div>By Frank Stratford of MarsDrive<br />
<br />
Mars. The Red Planet. Fourth planet from the Sun and close neighbour to Earth. Since prehistory people on Earth observed that faint star with a reddish hue and wondered what it meant. Red has always been a colour that represented war, blood and alarm and to human eyes it grabbed our attention from the start. <br />
<br />
No one knows what was happening on Mars during our prehistoric times but perhaps future human explorers may uncover such fascinating details as they scour Mars for signs of life and water. The Roman god named Mars was actually first associated with agriculture before becoming linked to the Greek god Ares the god of war.<br />
<br />
Observations of Mars were made from even before the Egyptian empire where in 1570 BC as early as the 28th Dynasty of the New Kingdom, Egyptians refer to Mars as "Horus of the Horizon", a God whom they depicted as a human with the head of a hawk. They also spoke of the planet travelling backwards, a reference to its retrograde motion” <br />
<br />
In 300 BC Aristotle noted that Mars was indeed further from the Earth than the Moon by observing its position in the sky. From these times many different observations were compiled by people like Ptolemy, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler and with Galileo in 1609 making the first direct observation of Mars via his newly created invention the telescope. <br />
<br />
Gradually the observations being made revealed greater and greater detail of Mars with the first pictures of Mars being drawn by Francisco Fontana in 1636 where he described Mars as not being “uniform in colour”. These observations were soon followed by the first description by Christiaan Huygens in 1659 of a feature of Mars of what we now believe to be Syrtis Major. <br />
<br />
In 1659 Christiaan Huygens also made the first close to accurate estimations of the distance of Mars from Earth and the period of the Martian day (24 hours+). In 1666 Gian Domenico Cassini observed the polar cap of Mars and determined the length of the Martian day to be 24 hours and 40 minutes. In 1672 Christiaan Huygens made a drawing of Mars which included a southern polar cap for the first time.<br />
<br />
For those times, to be able to actually see another planet would have been a most profound experience. To start seeing features and being able to make accurate measurements of distance, orbit and day length had started them all thinking about the similarities to Earth and in 1698 Huygens published a book called Cosmotheoros, a book about whether or not there is life on Mars.<br />
<br />
From 1698 and possibly before that time people had started to conclude that life must exist on Mars and in 1877 Giovanni Schiaparelli (1835-1910), an Italian astronomer, produces a detailed map of Mars based on his observations of the planet with an 8.5 inch refractor during a favorable conjunction. His map gave classical names to the features he observed. These feature names became widely accepted. <br />
<br />
This map is also famous for the inclusion of features Schiaparelli identified as canali, an Italian word for a naturally occuring channel. The 2 moons of Mars Phobos and Deimos were also discovered in 1877 by Asaph Hall an American astronomer and in 1894 Percival Lowell (1855-1916), American astronomer, establishes the Lowell Observatory outside of Flagstaff, Arizona. <br />
<br />
The observatory is built in time to carry out observations of the 1894 opposition of Mars. Using 12" and 18" refractors, observations are made continuously from the end of May 1894 through April 1895 by Lowell and his assistants W.H. Pickering and A.E. Douglass. These observations marked a turning point in the history of Mars explorations and lead to the photographing of the Martian canals in 1905 by C.O. Lampland. From that time until the first flyby of Mariner 4 in 1964 debate continued as to whether Mars had any kind of life on the surface. <br />
<br />
On the 14th of July 1965 Mariner 4 beamed the first pictures and data back from Mars. This first successful flyby of Mars returned 22 pictures of Mars while passing 9845 kilometers above the planet's surface. The most important finding of the mission was that the atmospheric pressure was between 4 and 7 mbar, based on data from the radio-occultation experiment. Contact with the probe was lost on 12/20/1967. This mission ended centuries of speculations and ignited a new chapter in the exploration of the red planet.<br />
<br />
Succeeding missions returned ever larger amounts of pictures and data confirming that Mars was a sterile and hostile world to life. Mariner 6 passed by in July of 1969 taking 75 photos and in August of that same year Mariner 7 returned 126 photos and data. <br />
<br />
Touchdown! <br />
<br />
On the 27th of November 1971 the Russian Mars 2 probe became the first human made instrument to land on the surface of Mars. It was unsuccessful in beaming back any information and Mars was in the midst of a global dust storm at the time so the orbiter sent back no useful pictures. November of 1971 marked the beginning of man made instruments being sent to explore the surface of Mars and on 20th July 1976 the American Viking 1 touched down in Chryse Planitia. <br />
<br />
The lander was more successful than expected returning vital data about Mars until its last communications on 11/13/1982. It gave us our first up close surface data and pictures and forever changed our view of Mars up to that point. In 1997 the first mobile rover mission made it to Mars and inspired a new generation to the amazing features of the red planet with its stunning discoveries and pictures. <br />
<br />
Today we are living in a time where man has now the first long term on surface missions still going on Mars in the form of the twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity which arrived at Mars in early 2004 and have given us a new appreciation of the geological processes which made Mars what it is today and has provided us with very human like views of the planets surface features. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has also reached Mars and will start beaming back the most detailed high resolution pictures and data possible later in 2006. <br />
<br />
From this and future missions like EXO Mars and Mars Science Lab our knowledge of Mars keeps on expanding and all of the information we have so far leads us to want to send humans even more. Mars may seem hostile and far away but it is the planet we have the most information on and even now it has an unprecedented amount of probes orbiting and on its surface sending back information on a daily basis. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[category:History]][[category:Essays]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Mars-_A_Brief_History_of_Exploration&diff=2812Mars- A Brief History of Exploration2008-01-02T13:26:06Z<p>Ioneill: Mars- A Brief History of Exploration moved to Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com): clarifying title - shifted to essays</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com)]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Mars_-_A_Brief_History_of_Exploration_(MarsDrive.com)&diff=2810Mars - A Brief History of Exploration (MarsDrive.com)2008-01-02T13:24:27Z<p>Ioneill: minor formatting</p>
<hr />
<div>By Frank Stratford of MarsDrive<br />
<br />
Mars. The Red Planet. Fourth planet from the Sun and close neighbour to Earth. Since prehistory people on Earth observed that faint star with a reddish hue and wondered what it meant. Red has always been a colour that represented war, blood and alarm and to human eyes it grabbed our attention from the start. <br />
<br />
No one knows what was happening on Mars during our prehistoric times but perhaps future human explorers may uncover such fascinating details as they scour Mars for signs of life and water. The Roman god named Mars was actually first associated with agriculture before becoming linked to the Greek god Ares the god of war.<br />
<br />
Observations of Mars were made from even before the Egyptian empire where in 1570 BC as early as the 28th Dynasty of the New Kingdom, Egyptians refer to Mars as "Horus of the Horizon", a God whom they depicted as a human with the head of a hawk. They also spoke of the planet travelling backwards, a reference to its retrograde motion” <br />
<br />
In 300 BC Aristotle noted that Mars was indeed further from the Earth than the Moon by observing its position in the sky. From these times many different observations were compiled by people like Ptolemy, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler and with Galileo in 1609 making the first direct observation of Mars via his newly created invention the telescope. <br />
<br />
Gradually the observations being made revealed greater and greater detail of Mars with the first pictures of Mars being drawn by Francisco Fontana in 1636 where he described Mars as not being “uniform in colour”. These observations were soon followed by the first description by Christiaan Huygens in 1659 of a feature of Mars of what we now believe to be Syrtis Major. <br />
<br />
In 1659 Christiaan Huygens also made the first close to accurate estimations of the distance of Mars from Earth and the period of the Martian day (24 hours+). In 1666 Gian Domenico Cassini observed the polar cap of Mars and determined the length of the Martian day to be 24 hours and 40 minutes. In 1672 Christiaan Huygens made a drawing of Mars which included a southern polar cap for the first time.<br />
<br />
For those times, to be able to actually see another planet would have been a most profound experience. To start seeing features and being able to make accurate measurements of distance, orbit and day length had started them all thinking about the similarities to Earth and in 1698 Huygens published a book called Cosmotheoros, a book about whether or not there is life on Mars.<br />
<br />
From 1698 and possibly before that time people had started to conclude that life must exist on Mars and in 1877 Giovanni Schiaparelli (1835-1910), an Italian astronomer, produces a detailed map of Mars based on his observations of the planet with an 8.5 inch refractor during a favorable conjunction. His map gave classical names to the features he observed. These feature names became widely accepted. <br />
<br />
This map is also famous for the inclusion of features Schiaparelli identified as canali, an Italian word for a naturally occuring channel. The 2 moons of Mars Phobos and Deimos were also discovered in 1877 by Asaph Hall an American astronomer and in 1894 Percival Lowell (1855-1916), American astronomer, establishes the Lowell Observatory outside of Flagstaff, Arizona. <br />
<br />
The observatory is built in time to carry out observations of the 1894 opposition of Mars. Using 12" and 18" refractors, observations are made continuously from the end of May 1894 through April 1895 by Lowell and his assistants W.H. Pickering and A.E. Douglass. These observations marked a turning point in the history of Mars explorations and lead to the photographing of the Martian canals in 1905 by C.O. Lampland. From that time until the first flyby of Mariner 4 in 1964 debate continued as to whether Mars had any kind of life on the surface. <br />
<br />
On the 14th of July 1965 Mariner 4 beamed the first pictures and data back from Mars. This first successful flyby of Mars returned 22 pictures of Mars while passing 9845 kilometers above the planet's surface. The most important finding of the mission was that the atmospheric pressure was between 4 and 7 mbar, based on data from the radio-occultation experiment. Contact with the probe was lost on 12/20/1967. This mission ended centuries of speculations and ignited a new chapter in the exploration of the red planet.<br />
<br />
Succeeding missions returned ever larger amounts of pictures and data confirming that Mars was a sterile and hostile world to life. Mariner 6 passed by in July of 1969 taking 75 photos and in August of that same year Mariner 7 returned 126 photos and data. <br />
<br />
Touchdown! <br />
<br />
On the 27th of November 1971 the Russian Mars 2 probe became the first human made instrument to land on the surface of Mars. It was unsuccessful in beaming back any information and Mars was in the midst of a global dust storm at the time so the orbiter sent back no useful pictures. November of 1971 marked the beginning of man made instruments being sent to explore the surface of Mars and on 20th July 1976 the American Viking 1 touched down in Chryse Planitia. <br />
<br />
The lander was more successful than expected returning vital data about Mars until its last communications on 11/13/1982. It gave us our first up close surface data and pictures and forever changed our view of Mars up to that point. In 1997 the first mobile rover mission made it to Mars and inspired a new generation to the amazing features of the red planet with its stunning discoveries and pictures. <br />
<br />
Today we are living in a time where man has now the first long term on surface missions still going on Mars in the form of the twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity which arrived at Mars in early 2004 and have given us a new appreciation of the geological processes which made Mars what it is today and has provided us with very human like views of the planets surface features. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has also reached Mars and will start beaming back the most detailed high resolution pictures and data possible later in 2006. <br />
<br />
From this and future missions like EXO Mars and Mars Science Lab our knowledge of Mars keeps on expanding and all of the information we have so far leads us to want to send humans even more. Mars may seem hostile and far away but it is the planet we have the most information on and even now it has an unprecedented amount of probes orbiting and on its surface sending back information on a daily basis. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[category:History]][[category:Essays]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Marspedia:Sandbox&diff=2800Marspedia:Sandbox2007-12-28T14:34:53Z<p>Ioneill: spam removal</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Sandbox}} <!-- To tinker on the announcement, please tinker on this template --><br />
<br />
<FONT STYLE = "font-family:'Purisa','Comic Sans','Comic Sans MS',Papyrus,Script,Handwritten"><BIG><BIG>Your mess goes here. Hit the EDIT tab to begin!</BIG></BIG></FONT><br />
<br />
<!-- Please feel free to erase anything below this line before playing around in here. Expect nothing to be even semi-permanent that you leave here. Please leave this comment and the template invocation here.--><br />
<br />
{{Move2space}}<br />
<br />
{{Stub}}<br />
<br />
[[exd:==InterWiki==<br />
[[Helium3]]<br><br />
[[Test_Inputbox]]<br><br />
[[lunarp:Test_Inputbox]]<br><br />
<br><br />
'''''Sandboxes'''''<br><br />
[[Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[exd:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[lunarp:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[marsp:Sandbox]]<br><br />
[[sf:Sandbox]]<br><br />
<br />
'''''namespace collision and excessive typing test'''''<br><br />
[[lunarpedia:Lunarpedia:History]]<br />
<br />
===Test Interwiki buttons===<br />
[[exd:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>exd</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[exd:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>space</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[lunarp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>lunarp</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[marsp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>marsp</b></sup>]]<br /><br />
[[marsp:Article Name|Article Caption<sup><b>sf</b></sup>]]<br />
My son made a Mars school project that was very thorough and worth sharing. He crafted his project based on a three step development process. Spaceships from Earth, both unmanned round rocket supply ships carrying food, Oxygen and Hydrogen, as well as Nuclear Photogenic reactors, would be send to Mars in conjunction with manned space shuttle spaceships that woudl carry space engineers (not scientists!), to stay on Mars for the sole purpose to setup the Nuclear Photogenic reactors for electricity/heat/CO2 converter, and to dig the trenches to put the temporary living quarters, and also build the initial clear plastic domes (lightweight) to house the future biotanical garden. The space engineers would then leave for another Mars colony construction site or rotate back to Earth and then the initial colonists would arrive to take up the next step of the colony. The colonists would construct/maintain the living quarters, plant vegatation, install distilory machines (all the ingredients to make alcohol on Mars!, for export/antiseptic/fuel/etc.) and also start deep mining activity to build future habitation below the surface (for the ultraviolet radiation is not blocked by Mars atmosphere, infrared is blocked by Carbon Dioxide). Steel production on Mars would also be a big export since Steel is 99% Iron and 1% carbon, which Mars has abundance of. The Nuclear photovoltic engines would provide the heat and electrical energy to support all the colonies power/heat needs. The colonists would also build pressurized containers to store fresh water, waste water, alcohol, ammonia, and compressed air such as methane, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen, and other medical needs such as nitrous oxide, hydrogen sulfide, etc. Recycling everything from water/kitchen/human waste is essential, and new biotanical gardens will be planted to expediate the conversion of waste back into reusable water/top soil. Supporting the biotanical gardens and creating new garden domes will be a life long career. Building tunnals below the surface will also be a career duty on Mars (reminds me of the movie "Total Recall". Once the colony is sustainable without need for resupply ships from Earth, then Mars can also function as a penial colony for the dual purpose to put hardened criminals to good use working to improve Mars as well as alleviating the population epidemic on Earth. Mars will then focus on its role as space port for exploration/colonization of Jupitor and Saturn moons.<br />
<br />
==Template play==<br />
<br />
<br />
{| style="font-size:8pt;margin:0 auto; clear:both;padding:4px 4px 4px 4px;background:#feeadf;border: solid 1px #CC6666;width:500px" cellspacing="0"<br />
|- <br />
! style="color:#feeadf;width:100%;background:#ba0000;font-size:10pt" colspan="3" | [[:Category:Settlements|<font color="#feeadf">Settlements</font>]]<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Settle.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Settlements|Designs]]:''' <br />
|[[Hillside settlement|Hillside settlement concept]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Plains settlement|Plains settlement concept]]<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Hazards.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Hazards|Hazards]]:''' <br />
|[[Coronal Mass Ejections|CMEs]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Dust storms]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Meteorites]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar flares]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar radiation]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar wind]]<br />
<br />
|-<br />
|style="padding:3px 3px 0px 3px;width:50px"|[[Image:Location.png|46px|left]]<br />
|'''[[:Category:Regions|Locations]]:''' <br />
|[[Coronal Mass Ejections|CMEs]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Dust storms]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Meteorites]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar flares]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar radiation]]&nbsp;-&nbsp;[[Solar wind]]<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Captcha Test ==<br />
Marspedia has some sister sites, a general space wiki at '''[http://exoplatz.org Exoplatz]''', a space dictionary at '''[http://exodictionary.org Exodictionary]''', a Moon wiki at '''[http://lunarpedia.org Lunarpedia]''', and scientific fiction at '''[http://scientifiction.org Scientifiction.org]'''.<br />
<br />
==Element template test==<br />
<br />
{{element|elementName=Oxygen|elementSymbol=O|protons=8|neutrons=8}}</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Sandbox&diff=2799Sandbox2007-12-28T14:34:17Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 121.68.73.154 (Talk); changed back to last version by Ioneill</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Marspedia:Sandbox]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Rfc&diff=2797User talk:Rfc2007-12-26T12:48:24Z<p>Ioneill: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Messages==<br />
<br />
Welcome to Marspedia! I look forward to seeing more of you in the future. You seem familiar with wikis but if you need any help, look at http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#New_Users_Start_Here.21 or contact one of the admins. Enjoy! [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 16:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Ian, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I have started to write articles, and I should like to know your opinion. Is this the kind of article this project wants, or is it too fantastic, all-too much pointed to a speculative future? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi Rfc (do you have a first name, or are you staying anonymous?), it's good to see you contributing in such a positive way. The content you have provided so far is great - any speculative future is fine in my books. Also, you can include your ''personal opinion'' (so long as you clearly state "<nowiki>{{PersPosArticle}} ~~~</nowiki>" which prints "{{PersPosArticle}} [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]]") - personal opinions are fine. Besides, it may create some good discussion. For the main part, article creation is positive step regardless of opinion, speculation or ideas as long as you are fine with a good debate! Anyhow, you seem to have experience with wikis and the content is looking good, so keep it up :-) [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 19:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Site development===<br />
Hi, I'm just messaging the active contributers to Marspedia to get their views on the redesign of the front page. I've tried to highlight the important links and made the page more accessible to newcomers. Also I've created a Wikipedia-style "featured articles" section. I'd be really interested to hear your views on this. It's going to take a lot more work, but this is a good start. Primarily I want to extract the important info and cut down on the excessive text that may cause confusion (as suggested by a couple of you). However, I haven't removed anything as yet, simply jigged it around a bit. I'll look forward to getting your input :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 08:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:You did a great job, Ian! It really looks better. How about [[Main Page|my changes]]? It is just a proposal, so if you see a problem, please redo it. I am not entirely sure about the place for the "Notice" section. Is it required to stay on top of the page? [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 10:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
::Hi Rfc! Thank you, glad you like the redesign :-) I really like your changes too, but for now the copyright notice needs to stay where it is - although I'm getting confirmation from the developers. We are able to change certain things on the front page, but I'm worried about the copyright notice. I love the fact you've moved the "mission statement", that will stay where it is, but for now the copyright will have to stay unmoved. Nice work though! I will let you know when I get a reply to my email about further changes and we can take it from there. Also, suggestions for the slogan after "Welcome to Marspedia!" will be gratefully received, not sure if "''The collaborative resource for building a colony on the Red Planet.''" reads that well... Keep up the superb work! I've been reading your new articles and they are superb, I look forward to seeing more! Did you take a major in Mars settlement design?? Certainly looks like it ;-) Cheers, -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Does a "major in Mars settlement design" really exist? No, I am not, but I am used to design complex telecommunication systems, including some system engineering. I would love to do "Mars settlement design" fulltime, but I guess this is not good for earning the money I need for living (on Earth for the time beeing;-). -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 09:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I really wish it did exist! I think the Mars Foundation once had a volunteer who took an engineering course in settlement design, but I dont think he's with us any more. There are ways to make a little cash from Mars settlement concepts, but it's mainly educational. Have a look at our site: [http://www.marshome.org/grants.php http://www.marshome.org/grants.php] to see what can be awarded. Really only useful for students at the moment, but we are hoping to develop funding eventually. -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 20:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===List of Lists===<br />
The List of Lists exists solely for site development. I've hopefully answered some of your questions about it and copied the discussion over to the talk page for List of Lists. Ask more questions and propose things (or leap into action for that matter), just note that I may not respond for quite a few hours. It's daybreak here and I've been up since yesterday... --[[User:Strangelv|Strangelv]] 12:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for explaining. Sweet dreams ... -- [[User:Rfc|Rfc]] 14:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Blocking repeated bot offenders===<br />
Hey Rfc. Thanks for the idea to block the MER category and Exobiology page - only registered users can edit them now. Between us we probably reverted a hundred edits! At least these pages should be quiet for a month (I put a 1 month limit on the block to see if that is enough).<br />
<br />
Sorry I've been a little quiet of late, my laptop crashed last week and it looks like it's dead now, so i'm limited to using the family backup PC for now until I get a new machine. Any problems, I always have access to my email and will be checking Marspedia daily. <br />
<br />
Hope you are well and having a nice Christmas in Germany :-) -- [[User:Ioneill|Ioneill]] 12:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Category:MER_images&diff=2796Category:MER images2007-12-26T12:40:36Z<p>Ioneill: Protected "Category:MER images": repeated botnet spamming [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 12:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC))</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Images from the Mars Exploration Rover (MER) Mission. Images taken by both ''Spirit'' and ''Opportunity''.'''<br />
<br />
<hr/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Images]]<br />
{{CreateCat}}</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Exobiology&diff=2795Exobiology2007-12-26T12:39:48Z<p>Ioneill: Protected "Exobiology": repeated botnet spamming [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 12:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC))</p>
<hr />
<div>==Definition==<br />
'''Exobiology''' is the study of possible life beyond the confines of present-day Earth.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{stub}}<br />
[[Category:Biospherics]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Exobiology&diff=2792Exobiology2007-12-25T03:18:43Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 61.143.38.125 (Talk); changed back to last version by Rfc</p>
<hr />
<div>==Definition==<br />
'''Exobiology''' is the study of possible life beyond the confines of present-day Earth.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{stub}}<br />
[[Category:Biospherics]]</div>Ioneillhttps://marspedia.org/index.php?title=Category:MER_images&diff=2791Category:MER images2007-12-25T03:18:00Z<p>Ioneill: Reverted edits by 61.143.38.125 (Talk); changed back to last version by Rfc</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Images from the Mars Exploration Rover (MER) Mission. Images taken by both ''Spirit'' and ''Opportunity''.'''<br />
<br />
<hr/><br />
<br />
[[Category:Images]]<br />
{{CreateCat}}</div>Ioneill