Talk:Unmanned setup of a whole settlement

"Since the Martian atmosphere is thin, the landing requires more than just wings. For previous missions additional boosters and parachutes were used. For a colonisation the preceding construction of a space elevator can potentially reduce the costs of landing large amounts of equipment on Mars."

"the landing requires more then just wings". You do not need wings to land. The only spacecraft to reenter and land with wings was the space shuttle (And its Russian counterpart, Buran). Landing could be achieved with a near-conventional aeroshell, parachutes and airbags that deflate on impact or a crushable section. Incorperating some sort of decent engine like that on the apollo lunar module would increase accuracy but also increase complexity. A space elevator would not reduce the costs of anything. A space elevator is a massive megastructure requiring untested construction methods and constant maintanance. The advantage of an aeroshell/parachute/airbag cargo lander is that the materials could be enriched with elements and compounds that are rare on Mars, so that they could be recycled at a later date. T.Neo 13:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Conventional lander technology is all we have at the moment. We have experience for small probes. We have no experience for landing heavy load on Mars. So, this is untested as well, and we have to develop new landers anyway. Probably, aeroshell/parachute/airbag is not feasible alone and requires additional support of rocketry. I find the idea of a space elevator interesting, because it seems to be possible due to the low gravity of Mars, even with known materials. But yes, it is untested hitherto. And no, it does not require constant maintenance if used just to land all the material for the settlement kick-off. The space elevator for landing is quite simple, and I suppose it might be cheaper than conventional landing technology for large amounts of equipment. However, I am not able to do the calculations. I wish, some experienced engineer from NASA or Roskosmos could help us with some calculations. -- Rfc 20:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Other then the fact that the space elevator may actually be feasible on Mars, there is no real reason to use it. Constructing the space elevator and repairing micrometeoroid damage will cost huge amounts of money. What is needed is a very, very, very large rocket that is partially reusable, like the Sea dragon. By rocket assistance I am not sure if you mean a lunar lander type "hover" engine to steer to the landing zone, or solid rockets to decrease speed, similar to what the MER rovers used on decent. The upcoming Mars Science Laboratory will be a test at dropping large payloads on Mars, NASA seems convinced, so I am. And yes, someone from a space agency or with similar experiance would be very helpful to Marspedia. T.Neo 14:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, if NASA has already plans then it ought to be feasible. For landing a single piece of payload this is probably the cheapest solution (or in other words the least expensive). A space elevator is definitely not cheap for a single piece of payload, but it might be the cheapest solution for a series of 50 pieces of payload to land on Mars. The lifetime of the space elevator would be limited to the settlement kick-off phase, may be a year. No repairing. To be honest, I have no idea, how much the construction cost. It's quite uncertain. -- Rfc 16:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The cargo pallets would be MSL/sample return mission derived, with a service module for orientation and power during the cruse phase, and would be launched on something like an Ares V booster. The service module would seperate and possibly aerobrake into a stable orbit around Mars, to possibly become a communication or GPS satillite. The pallet would then reenter the atmosphere, protected by a CEV derived PICA heatshield. It would then deploy a supersonic parachute. On impact, a crushable zone or airbags would cushion the landing. A subsonic parachute could be included as well. There would be a margin of error, but the cargo would be collected and moved to the construction site. A space elevator would be something to be built by an established colony, not a developing or yet nonexistant one. Rendezvous with the elevator counterweight would be tricky, and require a large amount of fuel, meaning a payload penalty. Then the cargo, once landed, would have to be ferried to the base, which could be thousands of kilometers away from the equator where the cable is situated. Building the space elevator would also be a challenge, and require many launches, and some sort of landing like I suggest. Anyone you ask from NASA, ESA and Roskosmos would say the same, I bet.

P.S. why are caves the only option suggested for a settlement? Why not other ideas, like Transhab type modules buried in regolith? T.Neo 09:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)